definitely not in the rear end. mine barely clears with 1.5's,
Fleetvelo: the Joust - The first production bike for hardcourt bike polo.
This thread is about Fleetvelo's The Joust; the first production bike frame made for hardcourt bike polo.
Frame rundown:
Sizes: 43cm,53cm, 56cm, 59cm, 62cm
American made steel frame and fork.
This frame is summed up as a 26" size wheeled road bike that is comfortable and handles like a circus bike. Perfect for playing a full day at the polo court, and comfortable enough to make as your daily ride.
-The Joust specific fork, designed for performance.
-120 rear spacing to line up with most available track hubs.
-73mm English Thread (Euro) Bottom Bracket
-V-Brake mounts for superior braking
-Rienforced head tube for additional strength
-High bottom bracket for minimized pedal strike on sharp turns.
-Minimal to no toe-overlap.
-Longer dropouts that allow for maneuverability between street and polo ratios.
Fleetvelo suggests riding with 165mm to 170mm cranks for best performance, and suggests 26" x 1.25 - 1.35 tires for best clearance and performance.
Frame and fork:
w/ Paint - $650.00
w/o Paint - $610.00
Handmade in Waterford, WI
Here we will cover frequently asked questions about the joust frames and announce tournaments and events that Fleetvelo will be attending.
tried fitting a 2" in the fork, does not clear. running 1.5's at the moment.
We suggest running 26" x 1.25" to 1.35" because it allows for the wheel to be closer to the bottom bracket for tighter handling.
Accommodating a 2.0 tire that close to the bottom bracket would be problematic because of issues with bb shell width, chain ring clearance, and slightly out of true wheels.
With the 26" x 1.25 or 1.35 tires you get some of the attributes of larger sizes (when compared to most road tires) and you gain more agility with the tight design of the Joust.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
is that you tucker?
why not give it extra long dropouts to still give people the option... don't disagree, i think it's an awesome bike. just sayin', give the people what they want
No doubt and actually I like that idea a lot. There are pros and cons i foresee, but I'll look into it.
(updated 11/03/09)
The problem with using extra long dropouts is that displaces the wheel outside the adjusting limits of most v-brakes. The solution is going to have to be made in changing the chain stay design. This is a topic that we are discussing at Waterford/Fleetvelo.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
(updated 11/03/09)
The problem with using extra long dropouts is that displaces the wheel outside the adjusting limits of most v-brakes.
[in hushed tone]
eccentric bottom bracket
[/hushed tone]
seriously. EBB + breezer vert droppy and never worry about adjusting the brake again.
yes it is.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
My joust arrived UPS two and a half hours ago! I'm really pumped. Be prepared for the new Atwell soon, no more janky forks and lame dabbing
congrats atwell!!!!! welcome to the fleet!
just so ya know, it ain't gonna keep ya from dabbin'...this ain't like mountain dew or something
build it up and send me pictures!
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
i'm interested, will anyone have a joust at the new orleans tourney?
Come to the Midwests Champeens, there will be a few.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
How much is the shipping cost to Japan?
Riki@Tokyo Hardcourt Bike Polo
Anyone bringing a 56cm to the Midwests? If so I'd really be interested in playing a game of pickup on it.
There should be one i believe. There will be a couple 59 cm and a 53cm. I can't remember if Madison has a 56cm.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
Chombo's new ride http://www.hardcourtbikepolo.com/?p=1368
Doug D
Brooklyn, New York
http://www.hardcourtbikepolo.com/
That looks real nice! Totally jealous. I might be putting one on layaway. Once I get a job & pay off these hospital bills - a Fleet Velo will be mine.
Chombo, that bike is coming together nice.
I like the joust sticker on the fork, classy.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
Hopefully, I'll have one of these within the next year. I love my polo bike now, and don't really need another one, but damn, The Joust is fucking sexy.
{}------- lexington -------{}
anxiously awaiting mine to come in. looks like the build will have to wait til after tour but I got some cool stuff in the works for it
Congrats to Chicago's own Machine Politics for their victory in CoMo for the midwests. Matt Lane snapped off one of his brakebosses and rode the white Joust i lent RobG. I am anxious to see pictures of him riding in the finals.
That aside, in equally as big of news, Madison is officially the current Joust capitol. Madison of Jon Atwell, Ben Hunter and Kev Dogg posing with a Fleet of Jousts.
I stole this photo from Kev's flickr.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
i loved the joust. i was riding jonny's. 26" takes some getting used to--oversteering and whatnot-- but i think it's the way to go for me in the future. thanks tucker i stole your seatpost and saddle from your bike that Matt was riding and he used his own.
non joust related question:
what's the crankset on ben's bike in this pic?
nice bikes madison! glad to see such a response.
RVA JT rode mine around in MD this past weekend...he was stoked and may be hooked...sean man you had better keep an eye on yer bike
---------------------------
this must be what it feels like to be Woadie every day
hey I'm just the gateway
---------------------------
this must be what it feels like to be Woadie every day
question - why's the DT gusset not sealed all the way around? is it for relieving stress from impact?
There is that reason, but the main reason why it isn't welded all the way around is so that moisture from condensation may drain out. If it is sealed, rust is more likely build up inside and weaken the tube overtime through internal corrosion. It is that way for the same reasons that there are little drainage holes at the top and bottom of the stays, and why the seat mast and headtube have holes drilled dead center from where the mitered top tube and down tube connect.
MKE 05-06
CHI 07-Pres.
Can we see a pic of red?
my red frame got mailed to my shop in Richmond, my roommate works there I'll try to get him to take a pic of the frame and email it to me. Unless Tucker has some pics handy?
kev did you get a pcit of sams bike? ok too drunk to post anymore, goignt to bed. hey kev can you do one ofthose goodgle drunkgoggles tgisngs for .ca i think it owuld really make for more legible post. please i knoew yoir not our made, but someone has got to clean this siht up. altenrativly you culd just revoce my accout.
ok just let me knwo
I read your post and then watched this video like 6 times.
Mr Hunter Goes to Columbia from Mr.Do on Vimeo.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
I have some good photos of the Sam's bike, i'll post them after polo tonight.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
Great Bike,but I have two questions in mind. When you buy the bike on Fleetvelo.com, You only buy the frame and the fork right? or is the bike complete ? and do you deliver to France.
D.B.A.A.
i don't know they deliver to Rouen, but they delivered to Tokyo.
now, me & my wife are waiting to arrive for our Jousts.
Riki@Tokyo Hardcourt Bike Polo
The frame and fork are for sale
No Completes. We will sell to France. If you email me a shipping address, I can get an estimate.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
Just had the pleasure of using Ben's Joust when I was in Madison for Thanksgiving. (Did you know that Ben? I defiled your bike. What's up with that seat angle?) After using your 53cm I think a 56cm would be perfect for me.
I really like it. I caught myself overestimating where my rear wheel was because the overall length of the bike is so compact. Especially when compared to the 44" axle to axle I have on my current polo ride.
It is time to start saving my dollars. Now to figure out what color powder coat I'm going to apply.
Still waiting to see a red one...
can it accept 700 wheels with 28 tires? sorry if this quesion has been asked already.
http://fleetvelo.com//pages/joustspecs.php
At a guess, I would say no, at least in the front. With 367mm axle to crown race and a good sized fork crown you may possibly squeeze in 700x23c or smaller. Looks like a short-reach road caliper brake would fit though.
This is just a guess.
Mike,
London, UK.
I know that on the older jousts (No. 1,2, and 3) could fit a 700c in the rear, but would shift the geometry forward. I am not sure about the newer jousts. i'm guessing yes, but I'm not sure how far you could get the axle into the drop out before the tire would touch the seatmast.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
have you thought about a curved seatmast ala the karate monkey? I only have two gripes with the joust...1- largest tires at 1.5 which is smaller than I like. 2- too much space between front and rear wheel (b.b., five hole, whatever). a curved seatmast would solve both.
why 120 spacing? why not 135 for more lateral strength?
still think the joust is a sweet polo ride!
FTL BIKE POLO...
i would like to hear the reasons...because i can't think of any really important ones.
i think it would be worth the price increase (if it wasn't too insane) to have the shorter wheelbase/tighter turning radius and smaller five-hole, no?
FTL BIKE POLO...
It's also worth noting that if you make the 5-hole smaller you must also create some space between the edge of the wheel and the post since the goal size should be one standard size bike width rather than a polo-special bike length. Or for hockey goals, which I prefer, same problem.
PETE_of_C0M0P0L0
www.comopolo.com
very true...but for midfield defense it's the 5 hole that is so susceptible to getting you burned, passed through or shot through. I rarely play goalie so rolling defense is my main concern.
FTL BIKE POLO...
my karate monkey has a curved seatmast...29er with 2.35s/60s and my 5-hole is smaller than almost any 26 mtb and alot of track frames. who doesn't want to wheelie turn like seabass and dustin?
FTL BIKE POLO...
As you may not know, it's a cake walk to re-space a hub btw. The easier way doesn't always mean the better route. Buying some BS wheel at your co-op and watching it get destroyed in two weeks is far more silly then doing the logical 120mm.
Yea, and by the way, taking those 5 to 15mm of spacer off the drive side means you re-dish (de-dish) the wheel making it stronger. more symmetry, stronger wheel. Only works if you pitch a screw-on cluster in favor of a bmx freewheel or like.
Narrower rear spacing can mean you can have a narrower bb (cranks clearing chainstays). And the closer your pedals are to center, the further they are from the the ground if you know what I mean. sideways.
Also - this is steel. You can cold set it to 135 if you want to.
Also - this is steel. You can cold set it to 135 if you want to.
Tucker, will this void warranty?
I would be surprised if it didn't.
if they arent complete, is there a recommended wheelset?
deep south bike polo
Looks like they recommend anything that is 26", with a 120mm rear spacing.
{}------- lexington -------{}
Tucker, have you contemplated a Joust that used a u-brake set-up, similar to a MKE Bruiser? How many frames have had the V brakes ripped off, including mounts.
Why would that happen?
Accidental mallet hit to one of the brake arms.
Catastropic supernova of massive destructive force
PETE_of_C0M0P0L0
www.comopolo.com
Lane can give you a reason. See his bike at como?
We have never had a v-brake mount snap on any bike by Waterford, not saying their bulletproof, but we haven't had a problem. We started using the U-Brake (or 990s) design back when we were building Standard Bykes. We used it for that application so that you could stand on the brakes while doing tricks.
If you are snapping v-brake mounts you probably have bigger problems, like assholes swing mallets into your whip.
We chose the v-brake for its accessibility, braking power, and abundance of parts at any shop.
Plus there is additional brazing involved that is just as easily answered by a linear cabled v-brake.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
a brake booster might help deflect most hits and spread the impact out a bit.
{}------- lexington -------{}
If i was going to buy a bike for polo, this would be it. The one based on 650s was cool, but 26" is perfect. a couple questions/comments for Tucker:
-Do you know what number frameset youre up to? these things seem to be selling at an exponential rate. do they have a serial number on them somewhere?
I'd have to look it up.
-Why didnt you opt for housing stops instead of those little deals where you put a zip tie in to hold the housing?
I used to get "skin flaps" around my knee on a regular basis due to stray housing stops from crashing all the time. I like the housing guides we use because you can get housing clips that are smooth, and if you ride brake less you don't have to rap your brand new frame in electrical tape.
-If i were to order one id want it spaced 135 so that i could use prebuilt mountain wheels: i like using a casette for ease of changing gears, and i dont ride fixed. i guess this makes me in the minority.
We keep it simple with single speeds. Sorry.
-Is the BB height roughly equivalent to a MTB, road bike or track bike, or something completely different?
Around a track bike and cross bike.
-I really wish i had one of these, or at least could borrow somebodys locally so i can see what im missing out on.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
So was in the middle of a finals break today and i was looking and comparing my old MKE Orange one and my Joust. I was looking at wheel size,5-hole, and wheel base. I recollected a question about 700c tires and i was curious. I remember trying a 700c with the current Joust fork and it didn't fit. I decided since both bikes were similar in size and both 1/8th steer tubes, and nearly identical fork crown race, I would trade out for a 700c fork.
This was the outcome:
frankin joust.
no real toe overlap.
fair amount of tire clearance.
note: newer jousts have slightly shorter chain stays, but would vary slightly. there is about 10mm of displacement.
Everything checks out okay
The only things that are questionable are:
The shift in geometry. Probably salvage able with traded stems.
uber high bb. get a wider mallet head for goalie.
Can only run a short reach caliper brake. I don't think the v-brakes will get up there. Perhaps with Paul's V-brake?
Might be good for you squater goalies.
I am skeptical if it handles well for polo, but i imagine it will ride in the streets like a pursuit bike.
Any one that has a newer Joust, Try this out for me and tell me what you think.
MKE 05-06
CHI 07-Pres.
the time has come. . .I am selling the Joust V1 (650c) and the Joust V2 (my white 26") frames.
Run down:
Joust V1 (the first joust)
59cm w/ fork
True Temper Straight Gauge tubing
horizontal dropouts.
track style frame.
fun for polo but bb is a bit low. Sick street bike.
side pull brake compatible.
Has threaded rack mount.
(NACCC 08, NYC at MAD)
$300
Joust V2 (NAHBS 2009 Show Bike)
59cm w/ fork
True Temper OX Platinum Tubing
Paragon removable v-brake studs on frame and fork.
stainless steel dropouts.
"Some might say, a modern classic."
Seen 3.5 tourneys (COG, NSPI, WORlDS, Losmarcos), some broken teeth, and tons of local play.
$350
(bike is banged up from play, but still rides straight)
It has treated me very well, you should give it a new home.
I am going to post pictures soon, probably ready to sell after christmas.
MKE 05-06
CHI 07-Pres.
We have considered the "s" bend stays but have been reluctant to use them for a couple reasons:
1st being that geometry of the rear triangle is so short that there would be a conflict between flair of the s-bend and the chainring. Also riding larger tires hurts the aggressiveness of the geo. It turns a jet ski into a fishing boat.
2nd being that Waterford uses all local materials possible. There is not a local producer that makes a modestly priced s-bend stay. It is equally as expensive to import parts from Taiwan meanwhile not supporting a local economy.
We weighed out our options and thought it was better to push the Joust towards polo inspired performance at a fair price, instead of adding a 100 dollars to the price for the sake running an out-of-true wheel with a 2.0" tire.
The sloping top-tube idea is one that we have contemplated since the early design. It helps broaden the sizing of the bike to fit a wider range riders per size, which is a very attractive concept.
An over sloped top tube brings up questions about durability in frontal impact, keeping the front end stiff, and strength of the seat post. Running a seat post at the height limit can be problematic because polo players will exert a lot more force and torque than most riders. Having too much seat post could bend your post and damage the seat mast. In the end, I'm not sure an over-sloped top tube is worth sacrificing strength for the ability to dig for balls.
Its one of those bikes you'll just have to try on the court.
thanks for the question.
I'm not sure an over-sloped top tube is worth sacrificing strength for the ability to dig for balls.
I want to be able to move mallet in every way possible to dig for every ball that is within my reach. You really think it makes that big of a difference in the front end strength?
Everything in frame design is a trade off. I think that an over sloped top tube brings up questions of durability and design logistics.
Here's a few sketches of the step through, trick bike, and what i believe a "shopper" looks like.
A sloped top tube is a good idea if used correctly. Using ball digging as justification for a slope top tube in design is a interesting one, but it would have to be done correctly so it doesn't sacrifice the performance of the bike.
WTF!
Skid & Destroy
Axles of Evil
Yeah, the lack of tire clearance makes that frame useless as far as I'm concerned. Then again I wouldn't spend that much money on anything I ride, let alone a disposable polo frame. There are a million frame out there that do the same thing as this, used, at less then half the price.
There are a million frame out there that do the same thing as this, used, at less then half the price.
The price really isn't that bad for something new that is exactly what you want, if that's what you want. I've never ridden one of these bikes but I've looked them over and they're well thought out. Something cheap and disposable is a good way to get into polo but as your game progresses so should your bike. Dispose of your first couple concepts and dial in something ideal for your game. If you don't think a bike makes that much of a difference you're just not into it enough. My bike is a huge part of my game and there are only a few frames that could take it's place. I'd be surprised if I ever ended up on a Joust but I don't underestimate there effectiveness on the court.
Having had this bike since July I would like to say this bike is far from useless. The tire clearance is a minor issue considering the benefits of the design. Run a 1.25 and there is plenty. As far as the price tag another minor issue once again, if you like quality in things. I would compare this as driving a Porche vs.chevette. Yeah you could build a great polo bike from just about anything but so what. The amount of time I play makes it so worth it. See my profile for the specs on the build.
What about this bike do you think is disposable?
-Quality local steel? Being made in the USA? Designed for specifically for bike polo?
1.5" tire is a small price to pay for performance.
Be sure to try out a Joust next time you see one on the court I guarantee that you'll have fun.
MKE 05-06
CHI 07-Pres.
I have no doubt that its a fine ride. I'd love to ride one when I get the chance. Waterford has a longstanding history that's impossible to argue with. For me personally, and this is true with all my bikes, even when I was a mechanic for half a decade, I don't really spend mad loot on bike frames. Spending half that much on a used frame would be alot for me. Plus I've had a pretty good track record of not spending any money on my polo bike. Everything on my bike is used, bartered, or parts I've had for a long time. My current frame and fork I traded a buddy an XTR and a Record hub for. I get that there are super dedicated hardcore polo players out there that just play polo, and need an immaculate platform that preforms and doesn't deform. That's who this bike was made for.
Plus you ride 700c x 23/25.
The one with a the over sized aluminum axle.
not a bad trade for a polo bike.
My second polo bike was a Bianchi SASS w 50 dollar King Headset that i scored from trading a free canondale 1 fg.
A good score is a good score. Hub for a bike is damn good.
Matt Lane's New Whip.
FV Joust 56cm with a paint job he did himself.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
my wife's new whip for bike polo (the joust 43cm).
she got to winwith her team mate at last weekend's "New Year Polo Gathering 2010 (round robin throw-in tourney)" in Tokyo.
Riki@Tokyo Hardcourt Bike Polo
tokyobikepolo.blogspot.com / www.flickr.com/rikitko
Awesome, post a picture of the bike.
First in bike polo, made for bike polo.
she also got to win to girl's alleycat in year end bike party 2009 in Osaka, Japan.
and this is my joust.
Riki@Tokyo Hardcourt Bike Polo
tokyobikepolo.blogspot.com / www.flickr.com/rikitko
my joust.
probably, i'll change some settings (stem length, seat position, etc).
large photo is here.
Here's my Joust build
56cm Joust Intense Red
FSA Drive X DH Crank, American Classic BB 32x16 ratio
DK sealed bearing hubs 48h
RhinoLite 48h rims w/reinforced eyelets DT Swiss spokes 3x
Deore V-Brakes, Avid Levers
plastic Animal Bmx pedals
FSA Headset, ITM stem 100mm
Forte Saddle etc etc
Plays awesome, switched to clipless last week which Im trying to get used to
My cable doubler is on order, interested to see how well it works... couple more pics
lefty setup? or do you like front brakes for polo?
I like front and rear brakes for polo usually. I've been using a dual control lever for a couple years now but aside from the Odyssey lever, the generic dual lever design is pretty piss poor. So I ordered a cable doubler which should be here tomorrow. In the mean time its been my work bike with the cables switched out for polo, and its great for both work and polo(minus the tiny gear). This bike is an awesome commuter/urban ride and after "messengering" (is that a word??) on it for over three weeks I'd say its a great bike for riding all day in the city if you build it right. Very nimble and quite comfortable, it's really versatile and has quickly become my "does-it-all" bike (rain, bar, commute, work, light trail and most importantly... POLO BIKE!). I currently have seven different rides in my stable, and I've been riding the Joust pretty much exclusively. Thanks Tucker, this bike rules!
Hot damn!
This is the guy who of last year in Pensacola never won anything in his life until the surly, and now look at him.
Intenssssssse!
dude Ive always been a winner! your just never around for it
I don't see a face.
Dumptruck's New 62cm Joust
Truck has always been on of the most feared players on the court. 6'5", 200 + pounds, and prone to smashing whenever possible. He is the nicest guy you'll meet off the court, but on the court, he is a metaphor for destruction and carnage. His new Joust is the last piece in his plan for world domination. . . or at least Los Marcos.
it siick and i love it.
Mine's done...hopefully I'll get some snaps at the court tomorrow before it gets ugly.
Tucker, we've talked about this before, but seriously, a 135 spacing, disc tabs, and wider tire clearance (chainring clearance will get better because it's a wider chainline anyway) would do wonders.
After a couple weeks of play, god damn do I love this thing.
The Joust on Japanese Bike Mag (Pedal Speed Mag vol. 5).
Okay so what's new?
-Birdie won her 3rd MVP title this year.
-Massive showing in Loop Magazine in Japan http://www.hardcourtbikepolo.com/?p=2283 , Thanks Doug.
-FV just released the 135mm spaced Joust that can fit a 26 x 2.0 tire with further sloped top tube.
-InterBike at Waterford Precision Cycles booth featuring the Joust Wunder Bike, you'll have to see it to believe it.
-New website is going to be launched in late October.
What have you been up to?
Fleets, SHOW YOUR STEEDS!
some one came by my shop and knew we were a waterford shop and wanted to order one. Weird. He's not a polo player.
Whats the BB height with 26x1.5" wheels?
The first 650c version had its issues with a low bottom bracket, after 4 generations of testing frames and tweaking geos, we'd like to think we have the best handling polo bike on the market (not there is a whole lot of players on this court yet). The frame is never going to make you a better player, but a frame can save you from hanging up on your crank, smacking your toe while turning, and allow you to turn into position when necessary.
is there clearance for 26x2.5" tires?