but if it happens allot then its annoying.
Mallet Heads that Trap the Ball
Hey everyone,
Please let me know if you have had this experience/discussion in your own city.
Seems that 2 cities/towns in Australia have had players arrive at this same point, through 2 separate but identical paths.
Knowing that the best weight reduction is fewer larger holes, Rob in Melbourne created this mallet. (photo 1)
Meanwhile 2 hours in Castlemaine, Laurie put a heavy plastic cap in one end of (offset) his mallet, and has cut similar holes in the longer sides (photo 2)
Rob uses his mallet to flick the ball up and over an opponents defensive shuffle. Laurie uses his mallet as a ball joint. When he is doing this, if you hit downwards on his mallet, the ball will become trapped inside his mallet. I think he also dropped it and dabbed so play was stopped to get it out (in the same way we do when the ball ends up in spokes)
So now everyone in Australia is starting to talk about "banning" these mallets.
I'm against mallet rules, and against specific rules that aren't based on broader principles. ie. make a rule that works for a variety of circumstances in the future, not just the one situation that we're looking at now.
And isn't this just a ball joint?
(also please comment on your rules for dealing with a ball stuck in spokes or rear triangle)
Also, pop on over to fixed.org.au they just started up a polo section int he forum. Big step forward. though I really think we need to promote strong links between bikepolo.ca and fixed.org.au
http://fixed.org.au/forums/index.php/board,30.0.html
I don't see what's so hard about playing with a regular fucking mallet.
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yea and your probably against gay marriage too huh?
I don't see what's so hard about playing with a regular fucking mallet.
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Agreed
The challenge is balancing innovation and avoiding gimmicks. That strikes me as a gimmick, and my gut reaction is that it should be banned. But on the other hand, polo has developed largely thanks to a the DIY spirit.
What if he's defending, in front of goals and it gets stuck in the mallet? It really shouldn't get stuck in the first place imo.
PISS CORNER!
That actually happened at the Nationals. Donald awarded a goal to the other side (I think party because they were down 4 nil but mostly because he hated the cut out mallets)
how could you say it was going in if it was going to hit the mallet anyway and be a block?
Just so everybody knows my opinion:
The refs job is to call what did happen. NOT what might have, would have or could have happened.
If what did happen is a foul of some sort then give the other team the ball, call a foul, kick out the player etc but DO NOT make shit up, assign points or even add to the game clock.
There is plenty of wiggle room for a ref to skew the game without also letting them make shit up. They are a ref not "Dungeon Master".
Thanks Zack, Have you got other examples of gimmicks that have been banned in certain cities? How would 'officials' have handled this if they had turned up to the Worlds or NAHBPC's with the current rules?
I should also add that the semi final between Castlemaine and Meat and 2 Veg was my favourite game of the tournament. Truly awesome to watch... and I've watched alot of polo. Fluid, cyclic, good passes, 2 great goalies. Hard to explain (maybe someone filmed it) but it certainly wasn't a gimmick game.
On some level, I feel like Castlemaine could have just done what they were doing with a 2inch mallet capped at one end and BJing on the other.
Point 2... If you were to "ban it" how would you do it? what would the wording of the rule be?
**Updated** )how to edit the original post/thread). I'm going to call it "Sidejointing" you heard it first! (google says so, if it's already been called, let me know)
--
bikepolo.com.au
urbanbicyclist.org
if someone showed up to NAs or worlds with that mallet it wouldn;t have mattered because that person probably sucks at bike polo... in other words, he wouldn't have advanced far enough in the tournament for anyone to care. or, if a scenario that you described should occur, it wouldn't matter in the bigger picture. this guy should worry less about a mallet design that allows him to scoop the ball or "sidejoint" and focus on ball handling. he's obviously not been playing very long and is trying make up for this by building a mallet that lets him "cheat".
I'm I the only one that thinks these mallet heads would collapse with a hard hit? Not that I bite a lot of concrete with my slapshots, but still, I would kill a head with so little plastic in a single night of pickup...just seems impractical.
OGT-COMOPOLO
For sure. I built three mallets with cut-outs like that (althought not near big enough to trap a ball). Two of them broke on thier first night out, the third lasted maybe five nights. They were super light failures, but failures still.
I followed your link. The first thing I saw was "fixies for $599". Not sure if I wanna go back.
If you don't like a mallet, break it.
Doug D
Brooklyn, New York
hardcourtbikepolo.com
flickr.com/photos/daytonohio
agreed
Yes and get 30sec/ 2min penalty, opponent scores, he get a new mallet, you come back and break it again, etc, etc.
Urbancyclist:
"I'm going to call it "Sidejointing" you heard it first!"
This past Monday in SF for unexplicable reasons this was called "mulleting".
Miah is a very good SF player. Been playing less than a year and first time I met him he showed on the court with his own unique mallets. He's got skills and ingenuity. His most recent mallet essentially has a hole where the rest of us drill a screw to hold the head in place. It's much smaller than the photos at the top. It allows him to do a sideballjointmullet when he circles with the ball.
"because that person probably sucks at bike polo"
Yeah and the people who invented bicycles sucked at riding horses. The people who started curving blades of hockey sticks probably sucked at ice hockey.
The people who started curving blades of hockey sticks probably sucked at ice hockey.
not hockey, just backhands
designing a mallet to give you an unfair advantage rather than just personal preference is a dick move. i've never seen a rule for it, but we have it for bikes to stop people from welding up their BB, so if people continue to push the line of fair play with their mallet design, it's only a matter of time
I recently started using 4 2inch holes on either side of my mallet heads to reduce weight, I cant bj with em but it helps me get balls off the wall or out of the corner a little better which is nice, I got the idea from Peter and Rory's mallets. gives me slightly more directional advantage when dribbling to. That said the mallets at top seem a little ridiculous.
Skid & Destroy
Axles of Evil
speaking of rediuclous mallets, rory, and the worlds... i saw rory testing out a mallet at worlds that was at least 8-9 inches long. his excuse when i asked him was that it was "ok because he could still shoot with it"... no he couldn't. i saw him play half a game with it.
Yep .. we saw that same mallet out in east van when we stayed with him .. and its jesus christ man wtf is that!... we have rules in Calgary .. your mallet head cannot exceed the length of you penis .. we asked Rory to prove it .. but were denied ..
...BallAholics...Multiple Scoregasms...Thundercock...
erect or flaccid, because, some of us are showers and some of us are growers.
and some of our dicks fought Godzilla and won
PETE_of_C0M0P0L0
www.comopolo.com
Ben Hunter. Dick farmer. Harvester of dicks.
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I also played at AHBPC with a sidjointing mallet but one that was impossible for the ball to get stuck. It was my third attempt at this mallet head as the first ones I cut too much out and caused weakness.
I had not seen one when I made mine but I was inspired by Rays "dogbone" aluminium contraption from when I had played in Melbourne previously. I wanted to achieve what Ray was doing by controlling the ball accurately with the side of the mallet. The side jointing mallet was born.
I had many people criticize it when I first played. I was kicking their asses.
Anyone can make a mallet. If one persons mallet works better, go make one yourself and improve on it. Probably best if the ball doesnt get stuck in it though.
Bike polo... The less rules the better.
Neil
Adelaide.
I am the owner of the mallet on the left and I just wanted to let you all know that the ball has never got stuck in the mallet its the mallet on the right that had the problems with mallet sucking.
The reason I cut it out so much was for lightness as I get sore elbows, and I never ball joint! and it has other disadvantages such as you cant hit the ball as hard as a heavy mallet and its not so good for pushing the ball up.
I to was inspired by Ray's dog bone style that esentially does the same thing.
In saying that I can play just as well with an "ordinary" mallet but it would be boring if we all had the same bikes and mallets - Just not Polo.
Rob
Meat and Two Veg
>I had many people criticize it when I first played. I was kicking their asses.
Hey Neil...
I hadn't seen you play since last summer, but I was seriously impressed when I saw you playing again at the Nationals. It wasn't your mallet either.
Will get in touch with you before I head over to Adleiade in 2 weeks, sorry we won't cross paths but I'll definetly take you up on the offer of a bike. Calling out for Polo on Sunday the 20th?
Damon
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bikepolo.com.au
urbanbicyclist.org
Why not just use a lacrosse stick to scoop the ball up and carry it around the court?
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na, you need one of those little garbage picker uppers.
like this:
http://store.markoinc.com/theparmex.html
Despite the ridiculousness of it... I think the basic principle holds true. It's a shit mallet and nobody would want to use it. It might be able to do one thing really well but it would be shit at other things.
Yesterday at polo, while cutting up some pipe, we made up a 1.5m mallet head "goalie mallet" to prove that mallet design is self regulating. Most people had a go. It was very good at a simple task but trying to do anything else with it was hopeless. Needless to say, by the end of a game, everyone agreed that it didnt represent an unfair advantage... actually, nobody wanted to use it.
(think some photos are on the way)
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bikepolo.com.au
urbanbicyclist.org
You've just invented the next big thing.
You don't need a lacrosse stick to pick it up. You just need the skill. Seattle boys have been pulling out the "Snowcone" with 2" gas pipe and ABS. Snowcone to the T-Ball is some sweet showboat action, but a little on the dangerous side for the goalie.
BRINGING THE RUCKUS
booo. pussy mallet heads. booo.
I think we should ban fixies because they can ride backwards, that puts us freewheelers at a disadvantage.
Oh, now look what you've done, Damon! You've opened up a can of worms!
actually no, this is a different bag of tricks. very distinct and different from a can of worms.
any bike works, they were around before polo and its called bike polo, so tandems and tricycles dont work.
not mallets and helmets, those are polo specific gear, and can and should be designed with the intent of keeping the competitive. see if you had a helmet that had one of the xtendo boxing gloves on it that you could just press a button and punch someone, that wouldnt be a fair improvement on the equipment. no one could compete with that, not even seabass, can you imagine..... seabass leaves goal, pushes ball up court ( and at this point has a 70% chance of scoring ) and then all of a sudden, fucking st louis bruiser press a button and seabass is eating shit on the ground. ( not unusual for seabass since he eats shit most every day, it just that his preferred stance of eating it is standing. ) thats not fair.
i hope my analogy helped you see why your analogy's ( albieght (to all the europeans out there sorry if you cant get this word, its horibly misspelled and probably misused) a salty one ) was bad.
Where is the love ben?
_______
Marco!
I am the Duck.
Ben, sometimes I want to go thru and x2 each and every one of your comments.
Doug D
Brooklyn, New York
hardcourtbikepolo.com
flickr.com/photos/daytonohio
Where is the button that emits a clip of laughter? I'd be pressing it.
BOP: LOVING Little Split Pea's shit for years.
Clip in. Hop backwards.
_______
Marco!
I am the Duck.
booo. pussy mallet heads. booo.
i love pussy
Thanks for your message Laurie,
I'm still yet to be convinced that your 'sidejointing' should be considered anything different to a normal ball joint. As far as I'm concerned, there's no difference. The only reason anyone has presented to me as to why it should be treated differently is that "its easier than balljointing" (This from people who haven't been around normal ball jointing long enough to know its many countermeasures.)
Some of the opposition has come from people never played polo outside their own cities. If we applied this same logic in Australia, we'd have banned goal keeping, ball jointing and off centre mallets, maybe even 2 inch pipe, (most people started out with 1.5inch pipe).
Fewer larger holes is the way to go for weight reduction, you took that to the extreme and the unintended consequence of that was the ball getting stuck. Was it an advantage to you?
I don't believe that your mallet would have flexed and eaten the ball if it wasnt for the heat (maybe it would have if it were a fraction larger)
Here's Anthony's 2 inch mallet head last Sunday, on a 33 degree celsius day.
He was able to lift the mallet and hold it upside down and the ball remained stuck. He had to bash his shaft on his crank/tyre to dislodge it.
I'm yet to find any city in the world that has banned a mallet for any reason other than safety/danger and I'm yet to see any evidence to suggest that Australia (who is several years behind North America in Hardcourt Bike Polo) should be the first to do so.
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bikepolo.com.au
urbanbicyclist.org
Ive played with both "offending" mallets at the Australian NHBPC and have no problems with it. Ive been adapting by getting better at dislodging the ball away from the controlling mallet.
Its not complex. goal does not count unless its a hit off the end(s) of a mallet head
I just tie a catchers mit on my mallet to make it easy to carry to the court, its just an added bonus to use it to play the ball....
Regular Mallets with normal, quarter sized and below, weight reduction holes, should be all you need to play.
Holy City Bike Polo
Jihad is Forever
Stop Press!
New Mallet's available from Ultimate Bike Polo Industries.
3 Colours available
NAHBPF approved...
Sighted last weekend in Warburton.
And playing on a Piccolo none the less!
with that first mallet, what the heck is keeping the thing attached to the shaft? doesn't look like it would last too long.
There is a small screw at an angle at the top (not scraping along the ground) it's also secured with selly's liquid nails which seens to work really well on HDPE.
This kind of mallets are used in europe since a long time in town like munchen in Deustschland. Some of good european teams using it, like polosynthese, Toros, Rotten Apples...
They are:
Lighter than most of other kind of mallet
Easy to attach to the pole.
With this you can:
Make lob any time
Have a better control of the ball in every case.
Why should people stop playing with this? When people use titanium to have better mallet, nobody talk about make it illegal because they break most of the aluminium shaft.
When people cap their head to have better and accurate shot, nobody talk about "pussy" or "dick" material.
For me this kind of mallet make the game more fluid, more spectacular and more pleasurable to play...
The cut-out doesn't bother me, as I've said before. But while reffing at the NAs, where there was a rule against ball-jointing in the offensive zone, I called a penalty against a SF player who was using the cut-out to "side joint".
The rule defined a ball joint as pining the ball to the ground with the mallet, so I felt justified in making the call. I will say that it took me a minute to figure out what I was looking at, the player may have gotten away with it a coupla times before I whistled him down.
balljointing and sidecuts are the training wheels of bike polo, gain some skills!
sidecuts are like having velcro on futbol cleats and playing with a fuzzy ball.
I don't use side joint or ball joint a lot, just in certain cases. Side joint is clearly the same move has ball joint.
But open side mallet allow shuffle lob and more control of the ball.
I'm not talking about trapping the ball, just have a better touch, and more accurate passing skills.
Yes this make the game easier to play. Exactly like have a better bike, or titanium shaft, or capped head etc..
Yea. You can do more shit with it, NEW techniques like the shuffle lob, so lob at any moment. I'd say you get better control but not better passing, unless you're lobbing it.
That's exactly why it's lame. titanium shafts don't allow new techniques, and neither do capped heads, or better bikes. They just make lighter mallets, straighter shots, or something with a better bike (i've never had a "better bike")...
We could do tons of crazy shit to mallets, but it's more fun to all have the same hodgepodge piece of tube on a shaft and get good with that. knaw meen?
What's wrong with "NEW"? Is this sport so "OLD"?
For me it allow better passing in every time, even without lob'. 'cause of light weight, and better ball control.
Lob is also possible with every kind of uncapped mallet, so that's just a way more to make it easier. Like cap make good shot easier. nothing more. Lob pre-exist side cut mallets. that's not realy a new technique indeed, but an easier way to did it.
Most of european players who use this kind of mallet don't make lob any time, but they have lighter mallet and better ball control than with usual one. I don't know why they should adapt their mallet to kind of that they don't like.
there's things to do to make it lighter than aren't as lame.
and still better passing doesn't make sense. a flat surface is more predictable, the cut just makes the control before the pass easier.
I have 4 inch abs somewhere, and i could make a mallet that covered my entire five hole. I'd cap it so the ball wouldn't go in.
It makes blocking shots "easier". blocking has been around forever, I'm just making it easier.
And it's "new".
So fuck you if you think it's lame. Why should you decide how i make my mallet.
because you should.
Ok so talk about advantage and disavantage of this kind of mallet:
Ädvantages
-Better control
-Easier lobing move
-Lighter
Disadvantages:
- Less passing control
- More easy to break than usual mallet
- Defending this kind of stuff make you a "pussy" or other any dick word used on league of polo.
you realy think that's the same thing to have a huge wall mallet who block all the nets?
This mallets have their good side and their bad, so they aren't cheating as making a frame who block every BB shot and stuff like that.
no?
For me the real matter that this kind of mallet bring in polo is the using of lob too much, and i think that it could be easily ruled like for the ball joint.
p.s.
Im a lil' bit confused, we don't realy talk about mallet who trap the ball like a hook or in lacross here? Im Just talking about having two more holes who make controling and lobbing easier...
"i've never had a "better bike""
until now, mr. sexy track bike and custom wheel
Show me someone that uses "sidecuts" and is actually good. To me it's like obsessing over a bike. Is it really your frame that is making you better? Probably not. I do think there are improvements to mallets and bikes that can help a player (ie caps and freewheel/back brake), but in reality you just need to practice more or something. I don't know. Point is the sidecuts are lame and good luck with them.
(almost a) x2 if you agree
Are you after a x1.75? 'cos I'll give it that!
polosynthese:
EHBPC 2010 POLOsynthese vs Apologies Accepted from EHVFXD on Vimeo.
well, that just about proves mark's point, good luck with that. next issue please capriotti!
i predict once again that no european teams will finish in the top ten at the world's, just i like i did last year.
x2
There are a bunch of Australians who are good players and use sidecuts without toally abusing or depending on the technique. Though most of them have stopped because of the peer pressure. Sorry I can't throw names around that you'll all recognise. This all went down November last year and a bit of it ended up on here in other threads.
As far as I am concerned, if you treat side jointing as ball jointing then we already have a framework for dealing with it in the current/evolving ruleset we use.
Flicking the ball up and over/through your opposition is a sidecutout/non balljointing skill that barely started to show itself. That could have let to some 'non polo' dynamics in the game, but the innovators caved in to peer pressure and reduced the size of their cutouts quite alot since then.
I think the only person who can have a clear opinion on Euro-US levels of play is Kev. I've seen the best teams from both sides and still don't know how it will turn out in Berlin. I was very impressed with the finals at ESPI, but then again am always amazed when I see L'Equipe play... Hard to tell really until proper matches... Wrong thread I know. Maybe someone should start a debate with a new thread. "WHY BALL_JOINTING YURPEANS ARE CRAP" or "YANKEE GO HOME AND TAKE YOUR INTERFERENCE RULE WITH YOU"...
ha. Hugo, Pierre and PoloFuries74mphbitches have a pretty good sense, too.
I think we will see one or two European teams in the top ten this year in Berlin, three max. but i am not a gambling man.
Like in almost all cycling sports, i think the Europeans will come to dominate eventually (better doctors). Their disadvantage right now is the lack of decent sized courts.
Using sidecut mallets gonna fill the gap pretty soon :) ...
Can't wait till Berlin to see if this shit talking is reality or only shit... I think your ratio is a good prediction Kev'...
i don't think i saw a sidecut mallet move all weekend! Not in any competitive match anyway.
Does anyone know ice hockey history? How long ago was it when having a curved blade would earn you ridicule from straight-bladers?
Spend less time cutting holes in your mallet head, and go practice dribbling instead. Uolmo, you keep going on about it giving you better control, but your newfangled mallet head failed to save my golden goal at the euros. Better luck next time ;)
oh shit...
Haha Uolmo hasnt made his new mallet at this this time, see you in Berlin if you manage well the preliminary.
My 2 centimes on this kind of mallet:
im just a bit concerned about the lob thing (any xxx-jointing things are all pretty ugly imho), since he have his new mallet uolmo trained a lot of lobs, sometimes really nice ones and sometimes just right into the Luka's face... But its uolmo, its the only one who abuse (at the moment) of this "issue" of this kind of mallet, facing a player who can makes lobs so easily is very frustrating, even if his lob goes nowhere you can be sure that you wont get the ball.
But as uolmo said many euroteams (really not the majority ) have mallet with large side holes, but at the euros nearly nones had using it for lob or sidejointing.
Overall its ok.
One advantage not mentioned here i think is the the fact that it way easier to take off the ball from the wall.
Yeah, trap the ball from wall is easier.
For me this kind of mallets, when you forgot ball joint and lobs, make the game more fluid, speeder, more pleasurable to play and to watch.
@chan
Asshole! Was a classical shitty mallet! And your shoot was a weird shoot, like a missed one, much more tricky than your usual direct and easily stoppable shots!
You beat us twice, never again...
Cheers and love!
After Euro champs in Geneva, genevian player make mallet this way. They bring more control of the ball in the game, make it more fluid and pleasurable to play and watch. But the game not change a lot after making this kind of stuff. And the gap between players using this and players who don't isn't big enough to make the game unfair.
For me that's the definition of an innovation. Seeing people play with a new kind of material (lighter mallets, lighter gear ratio, cover wheel, capped mallets etc...) and adopt this kind of new stuff or not.
Talking about breaking mallet during game because you don't like it shitty. The only kind of case of this is possible imo is if it make the game impossible to play (like in the historical sample tell by Adam during the tournament against Basel, were the Basel team score all point with huge lobs, and this practice wasn't ruled).
So it wasn't even an issue. Just like the BJ, often talked about but rarely used to an advantage.
treat it like a ball in the spokes... if it gets lodged in the mallet, he can't score with it like that, he has to hit it in, so either knock it out or let him get it out, no need to ban the mallets.