Soma makes a 23t, that's 23 skid patches no matter what you do...
and double master links.
EDIT: I just realized this is really old, and you found my solution a year ago, and lots of people found the other one.
Setting up a bike for both polo and reality
I used to have three bikes (commuter, touring, and polo bike) and now i have only one. And where i only used to need to bike two blocks to the polo court, now i have to bike a few km. so i'm trying to figure out the best way to set it up my ride for both polo and commuter use, using the flip-flop hub and my dropout to their maximum potential, so i can get the biggest possible differential between the cogs so that i don't need to break my chain when i switch from reality to polo and back.
The key piece of information is that each 1/4" of drop-out length means you can lose or gain an extra tooth on the cog. My drop-outs are 1.5 inches long so i should be able to get my bike to ride a 14t on one side and 20t on the other.
Right now i have it set up as 32x15 fixed for the streets and 32x20 for polo, and i still have a bit of room in the drop-out that i'm not using. The 32x15 is painfully low for regular riding, especially biking down hills. I like the 32x20 for polo, but i think i could live with a 38x20. So i think i'll set up my bike as 38x14 for the streets and 38x20 for the court.
It took me awhile to figure this out so i'm just reposting it here. I know a bunch of you NYC kids flip flop after your commutes to polo over the bridge. Brian from Ottawa told me he rides 40x16 and 40x22.
flip flo
39x19 for polo
39x15 for riding
same chain
quite happy
http://veloturista.com
46X17 for road
40x22 for polo
Same bike for most of my city getting around. (Bianchi San Jose)
so you have two chain rings, and a flip flop, that you switch between? does it affect your chainline?
32x21 but i'm going to gear down to 19
kevin, go with a 13t rear and a 19 or 18 front, better ratio that way.
i think i'll get a 38 up front, which is pretty much the same deal and a seems bit more solid than the 13 tooth cause i can sitll use the 15t for regular riding.
get a trailer with the back half of a vespa in it like
Sturmey archer hub?
use a rear derailleur or singleator to pick up slack and have 2 different size chainrings?
multi speed bike with down-tube shift levers?
internal rear hub,
ben, whatchoo jabbering about?
after one wreck or one mallet to the side of the hub with the mechanism that hub would be garbage. i've thought about it.... jonny, same with your drum hub.
Try a dingle cog. Surly makes them. If your frame has derailer hanger, you can use a singlerator to take up the slack from switching between chainrings too. If you have double or triple cranks.
advantage of dingles: straighter chainlines (?) when using two different chainrings.
disadvantage: i play polo on a freewheel.
Steelwool has an eccentric bottom bracket on their frames that works quite well.
Check them at http://www.steelwoolbicycles.ca/
Been finding lots of stuff - the steelwool eccentric bb is pretty cool. so are the double-cog freewheels sheldon brown's shop is selling here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/singlespeed.html
on the same page they have that white industries eccentric hub.
Ooooh, and check out the white industries 'double-double.' Sweet!: http://www.whiteind.com/cranks/singlespeedcranks.html
Johnny, NYCVelo sells the White Ind double freewheel. You can see one in person. I've been considering one of their freewheels for awhile.
Really geeking out on all this...
check out the 'ghost chainring' idea on this page: http://www.mtbr.com/faq/ssfaq.shtml#ssConversionsChainTension
I will check it out. seems like a nice setup. no more busted freewheel after 6 mos either. they sound like they are pretty burly.
just spotted this, too: if you have a freehub, you can install two (or more)
different sizes of those surly single speed cogs on the freehub body
(using some spacers too). That might be a cheaper way to simulate the
white industries double-double system. no messing with axle nuts, just
move the chain!
not sure why this didn't end up a reply to birdseye...
arrgh. i missed the reply button again. i need one of those computers with only two buttons instead of this complicated mouse and keyboard.
dunno if this could apply to you but i just use a regular freehub mountiain bike rear wheel, spaced out with two cogs and alot of spacers, and a double crankset. same idea as the white ind. stuff, but cheap.
30x22 for polo
42x15 for the street
Rory & Johnny,
What do you do about the exposed teeth on your empty from chainring while playing polo?
Seth Higbee
Hastings/Ionia
I don't do anything. And have never had a problem. I play with clips and straps, which may help keep my legs from getting gashed up, but I've just never had a problem. You could always use a cheap rock-ring or something similar, if you wanted to. I will probably do so when I get off my arse.
found a new setup:
41x15 for riding - perfect gear even for alleycats and other shenanigans
41x23 for polo - that 23 was hard to find but SO worth it. lots of skid patches
still changing my chain though
Yorgo
LONDON: http://bricklanebikepolo.wordpress.com/
PARIS: http://panambikepolo.blogspot.com/
Kev I know you don't want to deal with a chain but for a while I used two master links, so there's no breaking. Rode to the court 35-16 freewheel, added the link, played 35-21 fixed. And I have shallow dropouts so you might get an even greater benefit from this.
chicagobikepolo.com
I've heard of kids having a drive train on on both sides of there bike and two chains and some how zip tieing the extra chain up when not in use but that just sounds crazy, i ride 35x22 free for polo on the other side i have a 16 free wheel on the other side with this ten dollar singleator im stilling spinning but that's the way i like it manageable awesome for riding around other cities during tourneys.
add to my wish list for the perfect polo bike: 6" long track dropouts :P
"Bike polo is the sport of gentlemen...
Gentlemen with mustaches"
i really stand by the method referenced above - super easy (all you have to do is flip your wheel) and you have a single-speed street gear and whatever polo gear you want - there is no compromise of a too-large polo gear or an annoyingly spinny street gear. I've experienced zero problems I don't know why more people don't do it, honestly, because it allows you to ride your polo bike all day instead of having to go home and switch bikes...
Realizing this might be unclear: what I've got is a flip-flop hub with a 22t cog on one side and a 15t freewheel on the other, and a double crankset with a 35 and 44. Two gear combos that use roughly the same amount of chain: 35/22 and 44/15 flip the wheel, move the chain, and presto!
Look out! Rant!
I don’t ride a bike for work, but I do ride to work a lot. There ya go, full discloser.
I wouldn’t want to ride my polo bike around all day. It just isn’t set up for that, and I don’t want my setup to be a compromise. I don’t want extra pieces that I don’t need. Chainrings without a cover can give you a sweet scar, but I’ve already got enough scars. A disk wheel on the front is a pain when you are going fast and it gets really crazy with a cross wind, plus my bars are so chopped down and my headtube angle is so steep that my bike is way twitchy at speed. My polo bike lives in the basement at my LBS. Everybody meets at the shop anyway before playing polo, so it just works well. The furthest I’ve ever had to ride to play polo was like 3 miles, so it’s just not a big deal.
With products coming out like the Pologaurd, 48 spoke polo wheels, and real purpose built polo frames, it just makes sense to build bikes with the sole intent of playing polo on them. People are starting to invest real money into polo bikes. Those 48 spoke wheels don’t come cheap, and to not run a disk over them when playing polo is just asking to get them wrecked, but you really don’t want to ride around all day with a disk. True polo bikes just don’t make good all-around bikes anymore, and I think that’s a good thing.
/rant
Seth Higbee
Hastings/Ionia
"Those 48 spoke wheels don’t come cheap, and to not run a disk over them when playing polo is just asking to get them wrecked"
yup
BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!
shit dude, I just peed a little :(
"Bike polo is the sport of gentlemen...
Gentlemen with mustaches"
Seth, I'd be happy to show you what I can do on my polo bike that I've got set up for both polo and riding around the city. You are welcome to visit us here in NYC any time.
I may like a different setup than you, but I can't think of anything I'm compromising on by adding an extra chainring.
Making an extra trip home 2 or 3 times a week to switch bikes doesn't make sense for me, especially when I'm spending all day on the same island we play polo on.
I'd love to visit NYC. Hopefully I'll make it out there this spring and you guys can take me to school.(internet clarification-I fully expect to be taken to school.)
I'm not ragging on your bike, and I can understand how impractical it would be to make extra trips home. I'm saying that these bikes are getting more and more polo specific, and because of that they are less practical for general use. To me, a true polo wheelset is a super strong rim with as many spokes as you can get all covered by a disk and spinning on a super low gear. That doesn't sound very practical as a general riding wheelset. It's heavy, doesn't do well in crosswinds, and has too low a gear. Sure, a flip flop hub lets you have two gears, but I run 38x23 as my polo gear. I would need to run a 12 tooth cog to be even close to my normal street gear. According to what Kev posted above, I would need 2-3/4”(69.85mm) dropouts to do that with the same chain. I could run two front rings, but then I would have an empty front chainring with exposed teeth while I’m playing polo. I see that as a compromise to my safety, and also the safety of the people I’m playing with.
I guess the biggest thing is the wheels. If you have two wheelsets and two chains, there is very little compromise. The frames of polo bikes and general bikes are still interchangeable; it’s the wheels that separate the two. So if you carry your mallet and your polo wheels with you, and switch wheels to play polo, I would say you could have the best of both worlds without compromising either.
Seth Higbee
Hastings/Ionia
why would you not be able to run a double chainring with a bashguard? like, say, instead of a third ring on a triple, replace it with a bashguard. would work, no?
TOP CENTER 4-EVA
Yeah, that would work. If you used the inner chainring for polo you could run a really low gear. You could replace the outer chainring with a bash gaurd. The only thing is that you might need a longer bottom bracket axle to get your chainline right, and chainrings for the smaller BCD(74mm) are not as easy to source in different sizes as 110 or 130mm.
Seth Higbee
Hastings/Ionia
chainline should be easy enough to sort out with spacers on the rear. larger cog, smaller chanring on the inside for polo; smaller cog, larger chanring on the outside for riding. you don't even need a flip flop for this. you could run two cogs and two rings with this setup.
TOP CENTER 4-EVA
You must be talking about spacing cogs with spacers on a freehub? I ride fixed, so I could only run two cogs on one side with something like the Surly Dingle Cog.
Seth Higbee
Hastings/Ionia
Seth, I've had a few setups like this with different components (all have been fixed for polo, fixed or free for street) and have never had any chainline problems.
I'll concede the point about crosswinds. Though if you wanted, you could carry your wheel-discs with you and put them on at the court.
There's very little wight difference between polo and street wheels, actually - 12 spokes, some zip ties and coroplast? Unless you are comparing polo wheels to wheels not built for durability in the city. Plenty of people ride those deep v's around the city, in fact, they are probably the most popular rims you see on people's single-speed bikes these days (though I feel that has more to do with fashion and herd-following than performance or durability). Carrying wheels just because you want to commute on something racy is a little ridiculous, I think. Especially if it's only a couple days a week.
Rock rings protect your leg and your outer chainring if you are really concerned with injuries. And they are cheap.
And all you have to do to have the street gear you prefer is add a second chainring and cog that add up to roughly 61 teeth(plus or minus about 4 teeth). No more excuses, Higbee.
We all make sacrifices for polo.
Yeah, you can take the disks on and off. That's a pain, but it's doable. Chainline isn't an issue if you set things up right. Like I said earlier, with a flip-flop hub, dingle cog, or two spaced cogs on a free hub, and a triple with a bash guard, you can have a street gear and a polo gear with minimal compromise. You may have problems finding exactly the gear you want on the smaller BCD of the inside of a triple, but that setup is probably the best setup if you need to ride one bike for polo and getting around. I guess I'm pretty lucky that I don't have to go more than a couple miles to play polo.
Seth Higbee
Hastings/Ionia
or just skip the wheel-covers altogether. i've never played with them, probably never will. i get a great bounce off of my 48-spoke wheels, and i like to see through them and the wheels of my team-mates. as i have mentioned, my polo bike is my only bike, and i have made no compromises with it. it is easy to have a polo bike that rolls for everything else you do, just stick a derailleur on it.
what kind of spokes was that thing built with? im guessing that happened from a half court slap shot
MKE!
D epending on the bash guard, good idea.
Leif has one on his polo bike, it protects the derailleur. I don't know where he got it/if it was part of the bike to begin with/or what. Looks pretty simple, though, works pretty well, too.
Faced with only having one bike available here in Seoul, and not wanting to go for a flip/flop situation, I came up with the following. Forgive the supporting text, but I figured someone else might be interested in the reasoning behind it all.
* As you know, the ratio determines how many times the rear wheel turns per revolution of your cranks.
* 42/16 is a ratio of 2.625 wheel turns per 1 crank revolution, or 2.625:1.
* Here is a list of a few polo player's polo ratios (rounded):
o 1.6:1
o 2:1
o 1.5:1
o 2.1:1
o 1.4:1
o 1.8:1
o 1.6:1
* Here is a list of a few polo player's street ratios (rounded):
o 2.7:1
o 2.9:1
o 2.6:1
o 2.7:1
o 2.8:1
(There are also extremes out there, ranging from 1:1 to over 3:1, but this is for people who have many bikes in their stables, not for people who barely have room in their apartments for themselves and their one bike.)
So... we have a bunch of numbers. 2.75:1 is the average street ride and 1.7:1 is the average polo ride. If you were to only have one gear for both street riding and polo riding, it would be somewhere in the middle: 2.2:1. This is, of course, much lower than the average street ratio and a little higher than the max polo ratio.
If you go the route of only having just one gear, you need to think about what you will spend most of your time doing: playing polo or street riding. As it is not a perfect world, you will be spending more time street riding, so I'd recommend using a gear that won't be a pain in the ass to deal with around town. At polo, you won't be able to accelerate as fast as people who have lower gears.
I'll be shooting for something in the range of 2.2 to 2.4:1. Hopefully this ratio won't be that bad on straight-aways or downhills, but will still let me do well at polo.
Sasha
You know what could also work? Derailleurs. With a 16t cog in the back, you can put on a rear derailleur for chain tension and 42t and 32t chainrings. At least, that's what I usually end up doing, although I play on a mountain bike with a full cassette, so I do have more options. Is there any reason you wouldn't want to run that kind of set up?
Another set up I've been considering is the fixed/fixed flip-flop so that I can ride fast (Bicykillers, for you LA people) and play polo on the same night. I think the solution for that one, without breaking the chain, would be to change out the chainring. I ride 42/15, so I could theoretically put a 22t cog on the other side of the hub, and swap out the 42t chainring for a 36t chainring to go from a 2.8:1 ratio to a 1.63:1 ratio. Does that make any sense at all? Could it really work?
The only reason I'd caution against derrauilers (besides them being impossible to spell) is that they can end up in the "stuff that breaks" pile, or at least wind up skipping gears when you are on a sprint. I know Wheelie Mark plays with all sorts of gears / shifters on his downhill rig, which works out well almost all the time, but every once in a while will kill his sprint.
A fixed/fixed hub could work really well - I found a chain length calculator at:
http://www.epicidiot.com/sports/chain_length_calculator.htm [Web design fail warning.]
According to the site, 36/22 and 36/15 require almost the same amount of links (a difference of one inch worth of chain), so you would be golden with that if you have the dropouts.
Sasha
i've used a derailleur for all of my polo and really like the flexibility-- i can choose a gear for playing based on the size of the court, and i ride around and do whatever. i've actually only owned one bike for the past couple years, so it does everything. key to the set-up is a derailleur protector and a good derailleur. i haven't messed one up since i got the protector, about two years running now, i think it only cost fifteen bucks. i never have problems with it jumping or anything, if anything i seem to be the one watching people fix their set-ups during the tournaments. i'm not the crashiest player out there, i save that for james, but i've spent my fair share of time lying on the pavement.
piet i always forget to look at your protector. do you have a picture?
there it is chris, in all of its bashed-up glory. pretty simple really, it forms one end of the quick-release for the hub, sits up against the drop-out, and has a little adjustable allen bolt that screws into the derailleur to keep the whole thing in place. the red paint is i think from the boards in L.A.
as i was taking the pictures last night i was amazed that the derailleur has been protected that well from such a dinky little piece, i was a real skeptic that it would do anything when i got it.
idont know about that piet--ive seen you futzing with stuff more than anyone else
maybe your just a perfectionist
www.mkebikepolo.com
you are probably thinking about chicago where i made the mistake of trying out a new pair of xt v-brakes, the squeakiest, shittiest experiment i have ever tried. i did nothing for two days except wrestle with those fuckers, and hated every minute of it. the lesson was learned, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
otherwise, i'm always having to put the bike together off of the airplane and it takes a while to get it all dialed. i would say that front brakers spend way more time dicking around getting their stopping wired than rear brakers, it has to be pretty much perfect or it's a waste of time. it either works or it doesn't.
I also just moved, again, went from a 2 block ride to a 6.5 mile ride.
Double crank, 48x16 and 39x22.
le Jackai did'nt i just trsde you for the ACE OF SPADS
I am a fan of the flip-flop, free-fix setup. Pretty sure I have a 22 fixed and 18 free. In terms of frame, longer horizontal dropouts are better. If too short, it won't do both the 22 and the 18. My Surly 1x1 does just fine.
I'm using the White Ind. Eno. No significant complaints. My prior hub was a Surly flip flop. I do not recommend the Surly. It uses skinny little lock nuts meant for cone wrenches. I found those nuts broke frequently and left me with a useless bike. They're also difficult/impossible to replace. The Eno has a much more sturdy design. Phil Wood makes a similar hub...more pricey.
I started out with an ENO on my 1x1 because it was a wheel I already had... but I discovered that I didn't like adjusting the ENO on anything BUT vertical dropouts. For vert. drops it is of course, a piece of cake... but on the horizontal dropouts there was just too much play involved... the hub would keep slipping forward or back when trying to get the chain just right.
{}------- lexington -------{}
I have no polo bike at to moment so before game day I:
switch wheelsets
change bars
change pedals
Install a brake
It fucking sucks
Also, a 4 tooth difference and change from fixed to freewheel works well for me, but I play 38/18 and ride 38/14
thats 4.3 inches less than the standard 46/16 but it works.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.
If you've got the space and the money then surely it makes sense to have one bike completely dialed in for polo and another for normal riding.
I ride my polo bike for work all the time, have it set up
36 x 14 for road
36 x 19 for polo
i think its pretty good but as people gear down on the court i do feel sluggish and could do with and extra tooth or two at the back, but no room in the drop outs...
LONDON
I use a SRAM chain with two powerlink connections. One powerlink
is always on the chain then I have another couple of normal links
with another powerink which I can put on in about 20secs. I then
use 34x13 for road and 34x22 for polo. I havent been able to find
a powerlink for a single speed chain so Im using a 7speed chain.
i do the same. i run two master links with an extra regular link for polo, and a single master link for commuting. it's a very quick change once i get to the court and i've had no problems at all with the setup. 36-14 and 36-20.
just for the record, there is no such thing as reality, only polo... just for the rec.
i run two chainrings and two cogs on a cassette hub. 38-16 for street, 34-20 for polo. that way it's the same chain length for both setups and don't have to change any parts over, just undo the quick-release move the chain across and it's done. thinking of changing to 38-15 for street riding for better top speed. I also have a quick-release on the stem so i can slide the handlebar across for polo and back to centred for street.
on my bruiser i run 35x22 for polo free wheel for the street i run 35x16 freewheel same chain same ring same wheel. the only part that is even remotely a hassle is i have to release the rear brake or the pads rub on my tire but with u brakes its super simple.
www.mkebikepolo.com
I just went from 35/19 - 35/16 to 35/22 - 35/16 on my Steamroller, and after dropping from a 700x32 to a 700x28 Ribmo in the rear, I have about 0.8mm of clearance. But it works! Not riding a rear break though. Not sure if it would be unusable in one configuration.
On my fixed inc, the flip flop wheel is 22 or 18 x 41... just need to switch side.
fixed gear with a fixed/fixed hub and a double chainring
36/17 for polo and 40/14 for every day use
but sometimes i'm too lazy to switch the back wheel over and just chill around town
need to get an 18t cog to replace the 17t
It's not actually built up yet, just sitting in the other room waiting for rims, so I'm not 100% sure how it's going to play out.
It's 35/22 for polo and 35/13 for everyday use. free/free.
It's on a joust so it's got an awful lot of dropout, but for the sake of my brakes, I have a STRONG feeling I'll be carrying another chain.
Also got some of those halftoe clips thinking they'll be less annoying in polo and still help keep my foot on a little bit in normal riding.
That we'll have to see about once I'm actually playing on it, sneaking feeling they wont last real long, but it's worth a try.
pretty sure you'll have to. I know the joust has long dropouts...but long enough for a 9 tooth difference?
Hannes from Karlsruhe has it down.Two chain rings on the front. and you either have a road hub with two cogs or a flip flop hub with the corresponding ratios... i'm pretty sure it is a 39-22 and a 44 - 16. he doesn't have to change his chain.. don't quote me on the actaul ratio.. hit up hannes!
"ok Mr. Schwinn fucking Armstrong!"
Sounds about right. If you add the teeth count from chain ring/cog set-ups (39+22=61 and 44+16=60) and they're only off of each other by 1 or 2 teeth you shouldn't have a problem with using the same chain.
Only problem I had is that my chainrings are 3/32 and my cogs are 1/8 and a few the chain rivets would rub/snag when I ran on the inside chainring....but that stopped after one night on the court.
I choose not to prescribe to reality, I'm geared at 26 x 16 and clipless pedals. Great for polo but not worth a damn for anything else.
Keep your standards low, and morale high.
I use a 25/16 and give myself some time to stop for a beer and get to the court on time:) pedaling a little bit more is not going to kill me haha!
But I do have one question that I haven't heard any one ask or maybe it slipped by me.
I see a lot of players playing with a bigger front chain rings like 34/32/ so on a so forth with a bash guard for "other players safety"??? no lost fingers??
I went the other way to a smaller front ring and a smaller cog, kinda like a BMX Micro Drive set up.
do I still need a bash guard??
I have 44x15 for city and 44x22 for polo. Not ideal as I have to break the chain (and carry an spare one, longer), and on my polo gear I have only one skid patch. Looking into a solution at the moment but the maths are too much for my brain.
Yorgo
LONDON: http://bricklanebikepolo.wordpress.com/
PARIS: http://panambikepolo.blogspot.com/
Yorgo
IN NEW YORK THEY...