Machine Politics vs Beaver Boys, May 2011. Photo by Bruce Carver
Hey guys, I am in the middle of writing a review for Eighth Inch on their full mallet build.
I was just wondering who else has played with them and what you think about them.
Likes, dislikes, suggestions?
or what kind of alterations have you made to it?
I actually kind of like my mallet. Sure its a little heavy, but I've got straighter and stronger shots with it.
I just want to be able to give EighthInch a well rounded review.
the shafts are real nice. same diameter all the way through and have a nice nonintrusive 1/8" branding on it. i didn't even have to cut the length on it, so unless you like em short, i doubt you will have to cut em.
I saw a pole bend after a single game of pickup. Maybe lighter than an MKE pole but way less sturdy. In my experience tapered poles > straight poles.
Also, I don't like that you can't cut down the heads, but if it's already a size you like then i guess that works for you. I saw some guys from Atlanta play really well with 'em this weekend, but since all three guys were using 'em i'm guessing its a sponsorship thing.
No doubt. You're right about the taper and on top of that there's no way they are 7075 aluminum and that is simply the only thing anyone should be using at this point.
But more power to them for being there and available. I didn't see anyone else selling all necessary components for a mallet. The best thing about them is that they are a purchase-and-play product and don't require custom drilling, measurements, and hardware. If they are the only ones stepping up to that plate at this point then that's not a bad thing.
But more power to them for being there and available. I didn't see anyone else selling all necessary components for a mallet. The best thing about them is that they are a purchase-and-play product and don't require custom drilling, measurements, and hardware. If they are the only ones stepping up to that plate at this point then that's not a bad thing.
Your right. This is the best thing about them. That's why they are doing it. Does it make it a good product?
Cycles for Heroes out of Europe or UK makes and sells a complete mallet. Has been for a while. The name of it is Mo's Mallet.
Here is my review from this May, after playing games for over two months.
http://www.hardcourtbikepolo.com/?p=2225
They are terrible and they stole my cap design.
You can tell these mallets were 'designed' by someone WHO DOESN'T EVEN PLAY POLO. These people are only profiting off of anyone that purchases their products. And by products, I mean ALL of their products. You can tell they've put themselves out there as a place to turn to for an insta-cool pre-built piece of trash 'track' bike. Everything about the company screams lack of integrity.
Did anyone at NAs notice them packing up their shit and leaving before the final match. Fuck them. They didn't even care about the final match of the NA championship. This solidified my theory that they are 100% in it to get your money and that's it.
And their heads/caps are not HDPE. One of the Wilmington guys told me on Sunday that his first mallet head cracked so they replaced it for him. HDPE does not crack in the middle of the summer. You could run my mallet over with a car right now and if anything it would collapse, but certainly not crack. So if it is HDPE it's a type I've never seen before.
They prey on new players, such as the guy from Wilmington I mentioned earlier. It's a great way to get new cities/clubs started since you can buy the whole thing and you don't really have to put much effort into it, but they are doing it for profit only. They care nothing of bike polo. You can argue that sponsors are jot to do the same, but at least they aren't acting like they are in our community. These people at 1/8th inch most.
Do yourself a favor and buy one of lucky's products.
Queue lucky posting: "THE COMPANY'S NAME IS ST. CAGO! THEY ARE ST. CAGO PRODUCTS!"
Other than that, I agree with everything you said. It's like all those skate parks that churches try to build to get kids to come to church. You're all like, "Who the fuck designed this? The pastor?" I guess I was just trying to look on the bright side but I agree that the community should watch who we let represent bike polo and who we give our money to. I'd never buy one, and decided that the second I read that the "everything fixed gear" company wanted us to break them off a piece of the polo cash flow.
You guys are tough critics, in some defence of 1/8th inch they've sponsored our tournament way 'Down Under' in New Zealand by providing Mallets and other branded goodies. Sure it may be clever marketing to a particular niche in the polo universe but I'm not sure they've ever mis-represented themselves enough to warrant this "hate". To their credit Eightinch has always responded to posts on this forum concerning their product and don't shy away from it (none on this particular one yet). It's enevitable that as Hardcourt grows people will look to make money from it, as much as we'd all like our buddies to be the ones receiving the polo wealth not everyone who plays comes from the same point of view or ethic. That aside the mallets we've been given seem reasonably well thought out and are, at least, different from other offerings in most respects. Perhaps Version 2 will iron out some of the issues with weight and brittleness, untill I actually get to play with one I can't make judgement on their "worth" tho'. My best case for Eightinch (and way off the mallet topic) is that they're currently the ONLY reliable source of Franklin balls for shipping worldwide, that in itself justifies their existance to me...otherwise we'd be playin with a taped up tennis ball and cursing it.
Glad they sponsored your tournament. They completely ignored our sponsorship request for ESPI/Ladies Army, which was a pretty big frickin event. Plus what I've seen of their heads is pretty shit. The drilled screw holes right along the mold seam, of course it's going to crack.
cue
they didn't even watch any games from what i could see. they looked kind of bored actually, maybe they were missing the wii tennis in their mom's basment.
i thought about talking to them about their complete lack of a business model and then thought better of it. they didn't seem to get that no one was using their product or seem to care. i guess that's what having boatloads of cash is like, you don't have to try so hard.
i can't wait for your review doug, which way are you going to go? i thought i heard through the grapevine that you were trying to get eighth inch to sponsor your bid for the world's in new york in 2011?
x20000
I agree with you Mark and Pieter. I think they are logs and never liked them. These Eighth Inch mallets will not help any ones game.
"WHO DOESN'T EVEN PLAY POLO"
I didn't want to bring this up, but its obvious that these guys have never played polo before. I've never personally seem them at any tournaments.
They remind me of this local kid-- he was super into polo at first, but once he had built up bike, gone to one event and had told all his friends about polo it lost its charm. He was more interested in the idea of polo than actually playing polo.
I'm wondering who you are writing the review for? Your blog? a magazine? 1/8 website? And I'm also wondering if you bought it, or if it was given to you.
I ask because I'm in the slow process of writing a review for my site on the heads. I was sent 3 heads and I shared them with my team. We were not sent the shafts. I don't think they were available at that time.
All the rest of the details will be in the review.
in the beginning, i saw these new mallet heads, and i was like; hey, i spend 20 bucks on dumb shit all the time, beer, cigarettes what ever. i tried for the mallet give away but was given a certain percentage off. so i bought one just for shits and giggles to try it out. why not? so then the shafts came out and i saw the price and mentioned my dislike of the price. so they sent me a new mallet for review. so, currently i am reviewing it.
i figure i will be posting a general review for it on what it is all about, then sending them a private letter on the improvements i think should be made.
how much are the shafts? that's the worst ski pole i've ever seen, they wouldn't rent that pole on the bunny hills strawberry shortcake runs around here. there's a real irony in owning one.
that's exactly what i was trying to explain to them. the shafts are $20 and pipe is $3 for 4'. i mean, why spend the money when you can find poles for $2 a pair at the thrift store or find 50 of them at the lost in found at a ski resort.
i do like that they are trying to be more involved and producing a consistent product (no matter how crappy) i am sure their next run will be a bit more polo approved. and as i mentioned before, i just bought the head for shits and giggles to see how it played. it could have been the coolest best thing in the world, or a log. and yes... it is a log.
now what i will not buy are wheel covers that they are coming out with soon.
I saw a head tonight that had been used for one night of polo. The cap was shattered and the head seems to be wearing much faster than ABS even. Seems like crap to me. I'll x2 everything Mark has said. They don't seem to be in it for the polo just for the buck. Seems like they started by jumping on the fixed bandwagon and figured they could make it work in polo. I can't see them putting out heads like that in a year from now. Sure they sponsor but do people routinely buy and use their products? I wasn't really looking but I only saw one person at NAs using a head but I'm sure there may have been more. For $20 I can buy a year (or more) worth of ABS.
Support St. Cago and Milwaukee. They are in it for the players and the sport. Forget Eighth Inch. They are trying to cash in where they can.
uncapped end cracked after about 40 minutes of play. Front wheel ran over it. I expected something bullet proof with all that extra weight.
Drilled yellow HDPE seems to be lighter and stronger.
Wow- just saw this thread- you would think we killed a bunch of babies at the NA's!
Glad we can speak for ourselves here. Let's clear up some things. First off EighthInch literally consists of a team of about 4 people who put thought, testing, and a lot of interaction with the biking community in order to release products we think people will love. Do we have "piles of cash"- NOPE. Actually coming to the NA's didn't bring us a dime in the end- we were there to support the tournament and to meet so many of the people we email and interact with. In the past couple of years we have actually given away more gear to tournaments than I can remember- and paid to ship it all over the world. (side note: Birdseye- not sure what happened with not getting back to you on the ESPI/Ladies Army tournament- very sorry)
As far as the mallet heads & shafts go- hey we can take criticism- especially the constructive type. I know (by this thread and others) that it is very easy to jump on the bandwagon and bash a product, person, or company- but how about getting to the point of actually helping a product or company become better? I appreciate those who have given an honest assessment of the mallets and shafts- this actually is greatly appreciated. Can our design be better- yup, lighter- oh yeah, so help us out here!
As far as being competing polo players- nope, not yet- sorry. But I can tell you that everyone in our department rides- and rides a lot! Brian rides fixed gear and BMX and has been in videos, Noah (who a lot of you know out there!) rides fixed gear and road, Steven normally rides road just built up our prototype cyclocross single speed to commute on, and I (James) have taken 6 trips across the country- some solo, some with friends, lived 4 years without a car, and still ride as much as I can (did you see my 4 kids at the NA's? I stay busy!) This is also a place to state that we would love to learn how to play polo more- is that OK? Actually, my 12yr old son is out in front of our house every night since we got back from Madison because he got so stoked at the NA's that he is dying to play more! We are working on building barricades here at the shop so we can setup pickup courts outside in the parking lot and have Appleton's first weekly pickup games.
I want to say here also that anyone and everyone is welcome to come visit us here in Appleton, Wisconsin. We wanted to host a tournament this summer but couldn't pull it together in time. I know that if any of you came and had a beer with us here you would see we are are people who love and are part of the cycling community and we are having a lot of fun along the way.
As a final note- the reason we packed up before the last game was that we wanted to go watch it- which we did.
As a final note- the reason we packed up before the last game was that we wanted to go watch it- which we did.
ok....i was wrong there. i didn't look at your faces while you were under the tent, since i really don't even want to know who you are. that must be why i didn't see you in the crowd during the finals. hope you enjoyed it.
that was a sweet narrative up there. i'm glad you've ridden across the country and were without a car for 4 years, but this means nothing. Andy Schleck or Steve Bilenky could start making mallets tomorrow and i'd treat them the same way i treat you, which is to say a person who cares nothing of the sport, obviously knows nothing of the sport and does not play.
you stole my mallet design. that is fucked up. keep giving away mallets and money to tournaments. the organizers will take it. the fact is that you don't have the ability to make a solid product, because you aren't involved in the game. you don't play. your company makes me sick and if i were you i would be embarrassed to call myself a civilized human being.
Wow- just saw this thread- you would think we killed a bunch of babies at the NA's!
no...you just sell trash and anyone who knows anything realizes that.
(did you see my 4 kids at the NA's? I stay busy!)
no i didn't, but next time i see them, i will ask them their opinion of their father's integrity.
Holy crap. Ask and you shall receive. You guys are an honest bunch aren't you?
It is interesting how people treat others, especially noobs who really want to be involved in the polo community. MKE and St. Cago provide mallets for sale, and they are simple pieces of HDPE and a nice shaft for a decent price. Cute little stickers too. Simple, wham bam, easy, still a few more dollars than if you built it yourself...
Now, EighthInch are the only people I have seen who have taken these mallets to the next level; consistent design and quality (yeah yeah yeah, they're crap I get it, you hate em... consistent crap quality) Its the first run and are still working out the kinks. I am not going to sit here and defend them, I am just saying that this communities attitude towards people who want to be involved in this sport is very sour. So what if they gave it a shot, and they have really become involved in the polo community more than a lot of other companies out there. Did you see what they sent to the European championships? Not only did they send their mallets, but a shit ton of balls and other fun items. So I doubt this is the money train game. If it was, they wouldn't be sponsoring as much as they do.
I am a sign maker by trade, I have a bunch of coroplast and vinyl. Lately I have been providing custom wheel covers for $10. At first I asked around, and people were like... eh... i can make my own, or just steal another campaign trail sign. But I made one cover for a friend, and now everyone wants one. See, I took a chance, even though I know the DIY mentality of the game, and how personalized everything is. The wheel covers are the armor and flag you wear into battle, which I found a lot of people are too lazy to make. Eighth Inch caught the bug just like I did when they started making the mallets; wanting to provide people with bad ass stuff for a bad ass game. I could care less about the money too, it just covers materials really. My payment is seeing how excited someone gets when I present them with their finished fully personalized wheel cover. Joker almost cried.
Anyways...
Who gives a shit how much polo they play or don't play? Why not just be happy that they are interested in this sport? We need as much help as we can get if we want every kid riding around town with coroplast on their wheels, scabs on their knees, a mallet velcroed to their bike and a damn good story to tell when they get home about their winning goal.
Instead of yelling GTFO or shove it up your ass... why not work together as a community and maybe, eventually, who knows... they might end up with a pretty decent mallet for those who don't have access to the necessary materials.
Okay, done with the ranting...
and on with the 15-20 replies on philosophical and political hippy speech on capitalism and terrorism.
For the record, Zach, you can cut the mallet down from 150mm to 130mm in 10mm increments. Also, with a good attitude, we could convince 1/8" to push better/different plastics through the mold, which they own. ABS, denser resins of HDPE, hell - even delrin or other acetals. It would only get heavier, but it would improve durability. I told all of this to James while I was sitting next to them on Saturday.
What we could've done with constructive criticism had any of us been involved in the design process is made a better mold to start with. Single position mounting of the shaft is an idea I gave up on more than a year ago. Forcing people away from using the ski poles that they're used to is silly and straight tubing is a less secure mount. The inserts add a cap, but not a replaceable wear surface (a la TPL caps). The scoop out of the middle puts a ridge on the shuffling surface that plays the ball strangely. The nylox nut that secures the shaft is stronger than your resin, so the nut spins out of its chamber. You could've looked that one up in a basic ASTM manual.
In case you guys didn't know, here is 1/8"s reputation in the bike world: trend jumpers who want to make money selling entry level (cheaply made, overly "designed" and packaged) crap to kids who don't know better yet. Stepping stone bikes and junk that you're going to get rid of in a year or two, so they don't need to be made very well.
I'm not in a position to tell how deserved that rep is, but that's what I've heard. It is clear to me though, that you put more money and thought into a cardboard box that will get thrown away than the mallet head inside it.
We appreciate innovation and sponsorship, but we want reciprocal relationships with those developers and businesses. It seems like you designed the head in a bubble, then showed up with it. More established businesses are going to have to get involved with the sport if we want stuff like injection molded mallet heads (even overseas, that mold was easily 10-15k, St Cago can't afford that), but it wouldn't be difficult to find out who the "taste-makers" are in bike polo and get their help designing good stuff and getting it accepted.
Hey guys
I usually use home made capped HDPE mallet heads.. Built my first 1/8th inch mallet head and was shocked at how heavy it was.. Definitely room for improvement, Damn it's heavy.. it's like twice as heavy as any of the capped mallets I have.. +1 to different materials
Most of the ski poles I have are smaller than 19cm.. had to wrap electical tape around the shaft so it wouldn't wobble inside the mallet
The guide lines are a great idea for 140/130mm
The middle divot is a good idea but because of all the extra HDPE around it, it's effing heavy
The mallet looks cool but is unusable
The mallet looks cool but is unusable
Here's the issue in once sentence. Too much time and money was spent on the head (mold and packaging) than in the R&D. A cool looking product is fine for me (in fact I prefer cool looking things) but they had better work as well. This head fails in that aspect.
I want to say that we do really appreciate the constructive comments on the mallet heads & shafts. That kind of info is super-helpful to us- as we are planning on revisions right now to the heads. With that being said- we understand the weight issue, and the issue of material impact and wear resistance. We are actually having some new materials mixed up to test out that we think will make huge strides in taking care of some of these things. We are also moving the cap screw holes to the sides (off the main seam), and taking steps to avoid any sort of cracking when the heads are cut shorter to 130mm.
Knowing that we are limited somewhat by the mold itself- what other changes would you recommend we make?
Knowing that we are limited somewhat by the mold itself- what other changes would you recommend we make?
I like the idea of the mallet head you guys made, but I wish you spent more time talking with more people who play before you invested in the mold. But that's already been said. I like my mallet heads short and light; probably much shorter and lighter than what can be done with your mold. I haven't spent too much time looking at your heads, and only played with one shortly, but don't think I'd get one even if changes were made.
Other than playing with different types of polyethylene, removing excess material, and from the looks of a few used mallets, much more durable caps, I don't see what else could be done to improve your product. With the exception of a few different ways to attach the head to the pole, mallet heads are fairly simple.
At this point, I would toss the idea of making mallets heads out the window and focus on making durable caps and at a good price.
Oh- also the heads are currently 120 grams without caps- what is an ideal weight?
The problem is inherent in the injection molding. Pipe is extruded, which is why it's so durable. People are never going to want a "buy and play" mallet, they are too individual in their style in this sport.
But hey, I have something constructive to share. I personally ride a scrambler v2 for polo, and love it. Why not take what you guys already do and are successfull at, and tweak it for polo? Namely, get a better fork with higher clearance (I had to file the heck out of mine to get ribmo 28's to fit), and offer some straight bars, bmx stems, and more appropriate gear ratios with bash guards? That seams like a simple, yet really productive step to take. I would have bought a complete from you guys instead of parting it out had it been an option. So would my man here at work.
anyways, as someone who depends on feedback for my day job, I felt obligated to share.
my suggestion would be to turn that bolt 90 degrees and only have it go through one side of the head.
or, what i hear a lot of people doing, is eliminate most of the material around the center leaving just the 'sleeve'.
OH! and that nut it came with, waaaaay too tight. It's hard enough trying to get that allen wrench to fit in there and then trying not to strip the nut housing is kind of a pain.
Can't talk too much, my girlfriend become angry about using computer on beach during holiday.
Thanks to eight inch for the quick answer for sponsoring prize for the world. In one day it was done. 3 golden mallets for winners, 3 for seconds, 3 open botle and 3 glasses was sent for EHBPC 2010.
The matter is, most of the best players had thier own specifics kind of mallets, and can't play without them. So they don't realy notice the prize.
One of the player from "l'equipe" give me one of these:
quick review:
+ :
Design of caps, concept of the shape, easy to cap.
- :
HEAVY, way way too heavy.
Breakable (after 3 games the uncap head broke).
For now i think that you can't realy play polo with this stuff... sorry.
No time to talk about sponsorship, making pre built stuff etc... but that's realy intersting i think.
The other products I saw was realy more playable:
MKE Shaft
Mo's mallet frome Fixie inc
Poles:
Diametre are large, easy to work to attach other head.
Lil' bit too heavy.
Hope they are strongs.
Head:
Too long. And no need to have hole shaped into logo form, try to have effecients holes, beauty is not an issue in polo. Change plastic (too hard, breakable, and too heavy...).
EDIT:
Caps are shitty, they broke after 1 week of play.
http://uppix.net/6/1/f/f11a691140838d27d48e671c1fbc0.jpg
Stick:
Bend a lot after one misse BB shot...
my japanese review.
http://tokyobikepolo.blogspot.com/2010/08/18-inch.html
i and my club mate tested their heads for the column of LOOP MAGAZINE. they are too much heavy for japanese player. (girls doesn't use them.)
and gray one is broken only one game.
i like blue color, and their idea. but now tokyo doesn't use them.
my english review.
http://www.hardcourtbikepolo.com/?p=2347
Riki, I never thought i'd like a photo of someone posted in goal, but you look good!
Edit: incase you change it
I was about to jump on this buy one get one free deal, but I saw the link to this thread, I think I'll wait and see what they come up with on version 2.0.
I give eighthinch a lot of credit for getting out there and supporting the sport, and trying to move it forward in terms of its commercial appeal. I also commend them for engaging their critics and inviting constructive feedback. I fully expect (and want) to see bike polo at the X-Games someday (if not the Olympics) and it isn't going to get there without a broad range of support at all different levels.
Look at any of the other sports that started out as niche activities and then blossomed into wide acceptance. I think a lot of what you see in the response to this product is demonstrative of the growing pains bike polo purists are experiencing as 'our' sport starts to gain traction with a wider audience. I'm sure that skateboarders once cursed the availability of crappy, mass produced $20 k-mart decks, but I also bet that some of today's pro's started out on POS boards like those. Does that take something away from the sport? Or does it just make it available to a wider group of potential participants?
What eighthinch has done here is lowered the barrier to entry for someone who might have wanted to give polo a shot, but didn't have the knowledge, tools, or available materials to build a mallet. I looked at these when they first came out, and decided $35 + shipping was way too much for a mallet that will inevitably get destroyed (even a fancy custom one), especially since I have the tools and know how to build my own, and I know where to get all the stuff I need. But with the buy one get one free offer two people can go in on it together and end up with a complete starter mallet for about $20 each. That is cheaper than the MKE 'kit' that still requires drilling and additional hardware.
I can only speak to what others have said about the quality as I haven't used one myself, but If we look at this as an entry level/beginner mallet, I think the value proposition is a bit more compelling. All of the people complaining about build quality and durability are experienced polo players, they hit hard and are punishing on their gear (I know I am). Perhaps in the hands of a newbie these things would hold up a bit better? I've been playing for about a year now here in ATX, and I can honestly say that the first couple of months it really didn't matter how good/light/durable my mallet was, I was still learning to handle myself, my bike, and the ball. Only once I got the feel for things did I start to seek out better gear. I think most new players are the same way. So perhaps the players that start with one of these mallets will graduate to an MKE branded kit, or the upcoming version 2 from eighthinch, or decide to build their own, at least they started playing in the first place.
I can't really comment on the claims of design theft (or terrorism), as I don't know the full story. But from all the negative feedback the design has received, I'd want to disassociate myself from it as much as possible if I were you Mark.
i'm so happy that you are taking care of shit while i am gone. can't wait for the crown but the netherlands is pretty alright too. tot ziens!
"I fully expect (and want) to see bike polo at the X-Games someday (if not the Olympics) and it isn't going to get there without a broad range of support at all different levels."
Don't really get the point here. What's cool into X-Games or olympics games? Making tons of money on sponsorship or drug cheated sports? Have an "Kremin pro poloplayer 4" video game?
"What eighthinch has done here is lowered the barrier to entry for someone who might have wanted to give polo a shot, but didn't have the knowledge, tools, or available materials to build a mallet."
For me the idea of this sport is also sharing between people. If someone know how to make good mallets or have the tools in your community, ask him if you want, that's a better way of life than buy shit on the web. We all began with shitty mallets made with tape or light screws and that's part of this sport, handmade, helpful community. Isn't that great enough to know how to make your own stuff, without needed spend too much money.
If a kid or a noob have the power to buy some stuff like that on the web, he can really easily find some way to make a good mallet.
This mallets aren't good for anybody, even (and maybe more) for noobs. They break without high force, one missed BB shot can really bend the pole, and the head break after maybe like 20 try of shot...Like if a noob on skateboard break is board before knowing how to make a ollie.
2 comments
|
i tried one, yeah, kinda heavy, and the HDPE they use seems a lil extra 'plasticy'… not sure why, just feels less dense than normal HDPE. It seems like straight gauge shaft tubing would be handy for flipping mallet heads over and easier installation. It looks like the shafts are 35g lighter than bens but cost about 4 bucks more. But yeah, I might buy a shaft.