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2016 NAH Structure

What's going forward with 2016 NAH? 3v3? Squad? Bench? When / Where will NAs be (I vote Lex)? Who is holding qualifiers? All the important stuff, let's hear it.

Let's have NAs in Cleveland, and turn it into a hotdog and hamburger eating consortium. We won't compete against each other, we will compete against the limits of gastrointestinal capability and the capacity of the human spirit.

Bob wants this so bad.

NAH had it's first meeting of the year on Sunday. We'll be pushing out media on the website in the next month to outline some details about 2016.

In the near term, we will be publishing a series of NAH surveys to get some public feedback on these topics.

Combination of choice: Smash + Bang

Thanks Alias.

when you do the poll for 5v5 will you please include the time saved from less team switch outs and include the time saved by the lack of mechanicals and the infrastructure benefit of less teams at tournaments (even though its the same amount of players). also, if something happens and one of your players can't make it due to unforeseen circumstances or if an injury occurs before or during a tournament its not such a team killing occurrence.

I'm not sure of the cons...I guess subbing on the fly with a bike on a tennis court?

Just looking for information, not trying to start a bitch session or a debate.

Your biases should not be represented on a survey form to figure out what NAH players want to do. If you want to express that opinion, fill out the fucking survey.

"Your biases should not be represented on a survey form to figure out what NAH players want to do. "

And yet other biases are represented.

Counter point?

I would hope that NAH can put out a non-biased survey.

Sample question:

What format would you like to see used in the 2016 NAHBPC season: 3v3 team or 5v5 bench? Please explain your answer.

Is this really that hard?

"I would hope that NAH can put out..."

Something something in one hand...

how is addressing court logistics and addressing time limitations equal bias? facts aren't bias. you give people the information so they can make an informed decision.

FACT: less total games equals less time spent changing out teams.
FACT: having subs via 5 player teams means mechanicals/minor injuries don't throw off already difficult timing.
FACT: on a 3 player team losing one player to injury/emergency equals DQ or picking a random sub.
FACT: many courts don't have the ability to easily sub on the fly.
FACT: clubs may have difficulty practicing 5v5 format due to player turnout.

are the above facts biased?

I'm assuming NAH wants to collect data on NAH player preferences. I'd wager that the majority of players intending to give their opinion here have enough information to express their preferences.

Show me data that proves those "facts" and I'll buy it. If you're going to give "facts" on a survey asking individual players about their preferences, you need to give similar "facts" for the other option listed on that survey. Also, show me why those "facts" are relevant when asking people about their personal opinions. Finally, since we're asking people for their preferences, facts are largely irrelevant in the wording of survey questions.

You know where a great place to put your "facts" is? In response. To questions. Posited by a survey.

Do I need to break down the difference between collecting data and making an argument? Because I'm really doubting your ability to comprehend what's going on here.

FACT: a lot of people haven't played 5v5 or bench or thought about the impact it has on tournament infrastructure and the reasons for the NAH thinking about adopting such a format is part of transparency.
FACT: the last two facts above are pro 3v3 if you would've read instead of shooting off your mouth instead.

you seem like you like an uninformed public...carry on then. I ain't sweating it either way. i'll still be playing 4v4 with NO obstruction and NO stacking down here anyway.

FACT: including "FACTs" in a survey like you suggest will result in a bias, intentional or unintentional, leading to less FACTually accurate data about what players actually want
FACT: the way to get good data from surveys and opinion polls is with neutral questions
FACT: holy fuck this is annoying

Add to the cons: Travel takes much more effort for 5 poeple. Having the constant 5 people playing tournaments over a season too. Having 3 players on a team makes it so much easier to attend tournaments and grow together as a team.

I am not against bench. It's fun! It just amplifies certain problems polo already has in my opinion.

I thought about adding that as a con but then it seemed like a positive...instead of absolutely getting screwed if 1 of 3 can't make it 1 of 5 isn't so bad. if you're forced to pick up a 4th or 5th at least you have a core 3.

You're REALLY not getting what's going on here.

f-offs ideal nah poll: should all tournaments be switched to 4v4 touchless flolo with rules dictated by the grand arbiter, Jason F-Off?

A: Yes
B: Yes
C: Yes
D: Yes

i did scantron as a kid and i feel like you're trickin me.

I don't know Jason, but 4v4 will prevail. I have no doubt about that.

If its bench or squad or whatever, we should leave the option open for 3 person teams to also participate. I say a 3 person team is better than any squat formation. and who likes subbing anyway?

If we played in a format that really challenged us physically, you'd be happy to have subs.

I'd be down for Squad format. I like watching 3v3 better, as my attention span is pretty plastic bag.. plastic bag plastic bag Oh a dollar!

MFW I read everything above: http://imgur.com/D9Hl2ax

Me irl thinking about team player cap getting raised http://imgur.com/kih9Uir

One question:

1) Can we have a league of bike polo census to start this year with? I understand this would require hours to create and administer but it'd be nice to know what the total active population of players is at the start of our season and possibly at the end?

maxx wrote:

MFW I read everything above:

Me irl thinking about team player cap getting raised

One question:

1) Can we have a league of bike polo census to start this year with? I understand this would require hours to create and administer but it'd be nice to know what the total active population of players is at the start of our season and possibly at the end?

My man.

But for real a census is a hella good idea

Sounds good, you guys get on that.

Ok everyone post their addresses

Yes, Alias will be working on a census (though for timing reasons, it won't be part of the tournament survey)

I have some (I think) interesting questions:

Is the sport of bike polo in North America losing the need for a continental tournament once a year?

In the very possible case that the NAH is all but disbanded within the next two years, how can the goals of the organization change to help the sport function on local and regional levels without focusing intense efforts on continental conformity and continental events like the NAHBPC?

I think that a region or country combining their best players into the fewest number of teams to compete at the highest level once a year is coming to its rightful end, in many ways. I think we should focus our efforts on building a model of competition that puts the onus on the regions' best players to cultivate talent and growth in their local clubs to compete regionally. I think we need to structure the sport to encourage league-based play, as frequently as possible.

I just believe that sooner rather than later, the organization of bike polo needs a shift in its goals and foreseeable accomplishments, due to the lack of man-power at the high level, and the changing nature of the sport that's going on 15 years old now. I think we need to dial it back and re-invest.


But NAs is fun.

And honestly, I'm not the person or representation of the best players who should decide this.

Sounds good man. You get on that and tell us what you find.

I agree. I can see a scenario, where an annual NAs has little benefit (if the top level is being taken care of elsewhere). Given that the list of teams going to Worlds for the last two tournaments has had little relation to the teams from NAH, there may only be a need for a national qualifier when Worlds is in NA (if Worlds also continues to happen).

It is good for growth, in the sense it brings players from across the continent together, so people play with people they would not normally, see different styles, etc. But without qualifiers and NAs on the calendar, there would be more time an resources for other tournaments, which people could travel to.

Given the teams on the Podium of the last few years, a Cascadia based tournament, could decide at at least an unofficial best team in North America.

(if the top level is being taken care of elsewhere)

Does this mean organizers picking the top players and favorite format? The whole process of determining who is the best has got to be open. Thats what the qualifiers is all about. College football is getting this.... People love a declared champion.

Sooooooooooo..... when can expect to see something?

Once we are finished dialing it back and reinvesting.

But it's all dialed back and there is nothing to invest.....

We all just want to know when / where NAs will be and the format. The individual regions can figure the rest out.

Ok, just for info, regions can do whatever they want in terms of format. That's not changed from last year. Do a normal 3vs3 tournamant, or a city bench league, or roll a die. Just provide us with X teams for NAHBPC.

But yes, we've got off to a slow start with planning this, at this point nothing is decided for NAHBPC (location, format, or timing)

Ohhhh the intrigue. Is 2016 the year NAH ceases to exist?

You're not helping.

I'm just trying to see if the ball is rolling in the traditional direction. If it isn't or the ball has stopped, that's cool too.

i hope that the "NAH" dies a slow and shitty death. yall are just not good at organizing, and are a burden.

even the losers get lucky sometimes


I think we all welcome constructive criticism, or even better new volunteers.
We are just a group of players trying to do something vaguely organised for the rest of the players. But if we are a burden, we must be doing something very wrong, and would certainly like to know what that is.

I couldn't disagree more. NAH isn't paid and takes a ton of work. My earlier comments were not meant to degrade NAH, only recognizing that their time is probably spent on more important aspects of their own life.

Obviously you have not attended NAs, as it was one of the best run and most fun tournaments I've ever attended.

This doesn't get said enough: thank you NAH for putting up with the shit heads (I will include myself in this category from time to time) and pushing progress of our game.

See: this is just a perfect example of the nicest guy you could ever meet in real life being a total, complete sack of shit on the internet. No one is safe!

Since worlds is on an 18 month schedule, I guess we don't need qualifiers or NAs this year? Could we agree that this could be the season to take a break from the grind and focus on fun?


sorry guys. that was indeed not constructive at all. late nights you know? whats this talk of there not being and NAH in the future? is disbanding being considered? i think thats what is i was really getting at before. it just came out wrong.

even the losers get lucky sometimes

I don't think NAH disbanding is being consider, but one of the questions in the survey will be, "do you want an NAHBPC".

Given there aren't any worlds to qualify for, we don't need to have it for that reason, only if people want it for it's own sake.

I hate New Zealand for not issuing WCS-striped jerseys to the winners, and I hate NA's because it means no national championships or national championship jerseys.

Totally relevant.

/ / / B A D V I B E S / / /

i like the direction you are going colin.

so dudes, publish this survey, and ask everyone in the league to fill it out. please include concerns about the lack of striped champ jerseys, the importance of structure and function, and the newly proposed census....wait, if there is no census yet, how will you know who to send the survey too?

who is in the NAH?

even the losers get lucky sometimes

Can we expect to see this survey this week?


Thanks John.

"BRB in 18 Months - NAHBPC"

*announcement incoming*


We've only had ~225 responses in 24 hours. You should share this with people so that we can gauge a significant amount of feedback. We know there are a lot more polo players than this.

pretty good number compared to the primaries tho, amirite



First let me say that I care about goals. People ask me about goals. I'm a great business man, unlike Marco Rubio who missed an open net on a break away. It's a question I get a lot. Let me tell you something, right now goals are a mess. People want more goals. Obama dabbing all over the court--China and Mexico are KILLING US in the swiss rounds. If I'm President, were going to have so many goals, it's going to be great. People everywhere tell me my goals are the greatest, that's just what they say. I'm a great business man. Let me say that I'm not even sure Ted Cruz is eligible to play--those cut-outs on his mallet look too large--I haven't looked into it. What I'm saying is that we'll have so many goals, we'll get bored with goals--nevermind. Just kidding, we'll never get tired of goals. I'm a great businessman. We'll have so many goals that we'll need more courts built. And who's going to pay for them?

M E X I C O !

Combination of choice: Smash + Bang

Can't tell if viral marketing for LA8 or kruse hacked alias's account

non capisco.

i did the survey. but only cuz i looked at this thread. its kinda a joke unless you guys push it to the places people are gonna see it.

even the losers get lucky sometimes



I think Mack means he needs a hand drawn version of it posted to Instagram or it might as well not exist.
#themeans #hashbrowns

You'll see. Unless you drilled out your eyes because they were too heavy.

Hmm, its so weird. I don't really participate in social media, I actually don't get on the internet all that often. I don't regularly check blogs or forums related to this sport. I don't talk to people about this sport. Why hasn't anyone done a better job of showing me this online survey?

hand drawn versions with some cool graphics would in fact be better for me. nick, its good that this is posted on the sites that you listed, but i would go out on a limb and say that a large percentage of people who have been playing in your events for many years, and will continue to play, do not keep tabs on them/never look at them. i assume that your goal in launching this survey would be to collect data from the highest percentage of the community relevant to the survey. that includes people this person "I don't really participate in social media, I actually don't get on the internet all that often. I don't regularly check blogs or forums related to this sport. I don't talk to people about this sport" the only person i can think of that may fit that mold is chombo, and he would take the survey anyhow, but still.

when you use all caps are you yelling?


even the losers get lucky sometimes

Where do you suggest we post then?

We did get over 200 responses in the first 24 hours, so plenty of people did see it (but by no means all)

it seems that the nyc club has not heard of it yet, and i would guess that my club here in tx has not either. maybe the regional reps, could make sure their club reps see it?

even the losers get lucky sometimes

They must've been too busy spamming the blog section here to check other places on the net.

could very well be. my point however, is valid, and is not spam. its actually constructive in contrast with my usual posts. im trying to point out that it did not reach a notable amount of players. its not a cat video.

even the losers get lucky sometimes

Survey is still open! We want more entries! Pass it on to new players as well! We need input from players of all skill levels and experience!

We realize that we only published the survey in english, so we may do some special outreach to our Mex, PR, and Quebec clubs.

Combination of choice: Smash + Bang

good call!

even the losers get lucky sometimes

Also, just a note on what comes next. We have collected some individual player survey data, but what we will do next is an actual NAH census that clubs will fill out. The truth is that we don't know how many polo players or how many active polo clubs there are. We plan to do this in a more coordinated effort with regional representives.

The goal will be to have this census every year to see how and where we grow.

Combination of choice: Smash + Bang

What's the survey methodology and will it be tracebackable?



Can I help fix the .pngs? My therapist says I should ask before I assume the worst of people.

Hey west coast, someone have NAs.

2017 would be a great year to have National Championships

/ / / B A D V I B E S / / /


36 teams no wildcard is the way of the future

Depends what you want out of NAs.

Does it find the best team in NA? Sure

But NAs is more than that to many people.

Think of how many more clubs get added to the pool of potential hosts when the tourney changes from a 4 day, 3 court 72 team to a 3 day 36 court deal. Quality over quantity is what is happening here. I think this is a great move and please don't schedule it for 9/17.

What's on 17/9?

Cascadia World Cup, der.