I just want to write here before this shit blows up. I was second.
3...2...1...GO!
Mallets Of Mayhem
Little Richmond Bike Polo
Hardcourt Bike Polo's National Governing Body
Our club became a active RSO (Registered Student Organization) at Washington State University last Friday. What does that mean? Well there is about $50,000 that the university grants to RSOs for events on campus. We can tap into that for tournaments in the future, but we can't use money granted for travel until we are a "sport club."
It is our plan here in Pullman/Moscow to develop intercollegiate hardcourt competition. The primary requirement for university sport clubs to compete is that their sport have a national governing body and competition from other schools. We all consider this site as the governing body, was anything like this needed in setting up the worlds, nationals, or regional tournaments?
Me too. I want to express reactions like "fleeing in terror" or "anxiety".
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Does not apply at Los Marcos Melee
third!
yikes!
just a suggestion - if you need to be a part of a legit governing body, why not join your state cycling association? we ride bikes to play polo - wondering if that would work?
ahem...
B.O.P. 4-EVA
didn't some guy named montana have some ideas about this?
this site is not a governing body.
technically a site is just a location. this site could host a governing body, but i think what you were trying to say is that you wont let this site host a governing body unless there are dues or advertising, what do you think the internet is some gigantic flashing billboard? i just gave you nearly 600 US$ what more do you want?
how badass would it be if we had phil ligget, bobke and paul sherwin provide play by play coverage! haha
Pullman huh! i grew up in Walla Walla (kinda close) but its cool to see polo up in that area!
in reguards to topic - no comment
MRKO
Break'in spokes & bones
imagine how many hay bale courts you could make for $50 000. i'll bet you could cover most of eastern washington state.
Hey now, if Broomball and Table Hockey have International Federations, I don't see why we shouldn't have one either...
Obviously this is a touchy subject, though...
Reese (onespeed) and I have been talking about this a lot lately, and we both think it's a good idea. We don't think that this Federation needs to be so restricting that it takes the fun and relaxed atmosphere out of our sport, but rather that its used to set up a standard that we can all play by in regards to tournaments or other competition. That's it!
I've seen on the boards somewhere that some guys in Seattle are trying to put something like this together?? We don't want to step on anyones toes here, just want to open the dialogue on it and help get the gears turning in the right direction.
I think the biggest positive of having a national (or international) governing body is to create a set of uniform rules. I realize a lot of people will probably dislike this, because it's fun to experience and learn each city's culture and way of play (and we aren't suggesting that to go away either), but I think if we want to progress our sport, it's an absolute necessity. By having this set of rules, it also makes life easier for new clubs starting up, which brings more people out to play. It also gives us an avenue to develop a collegiate competition arena... It opens the door for money to come in -- which means more tournaments, more competition, more bike polo!
We aren't suggesting that Bike polo sell out, we just want to see it taken to the next level. We already have Continental and World Championships... Thats Huge! But how is everything at that level being determined and arranged? (Were the rules the same at NAHBPC in Seattle as they were at Worlds in Philly?)
I realize that a lot of people will probably see a lot of downsides to this... but that's why we wanted to talk about it here. So lets hear it... dig in to that can of worms!
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
"I think the biggest positive of having a national (or international) governing body is to create a set of uniform rules."
Speaking for myself, I get little value from someone writing a set of rules to follow when organizing a tourney. Us locals can easily create our own rules, or have no rules at all. There seems to be some convergence on rules for hard court that you can find reflected on this forum, but that convergence is organic -- not controlled by any one individual or group.
"if we want to progress our sport"
Find two people who agree on what it means to "progress the sport." What is your vision of what bicycle polo should become? Why do you need a national body to make that happen?
You may have better response if you could find other colleges with active bike polo. Not sure if the CoMo crowd here are affiliated with Mizzou or not. I've heard of regular games at U.California-Davis and Chico but have no contacts there. No one in SF is affiliated with a college.
You could also try contacting the guy at bikepolo.com (usbikepolo@aol.com). Many years ago he set out to "progress" bike polo in schools/colleges. His focus is grass polo. Not sure if he plays anymore, he only lives a couple hours away and I don't think any of the old-timers in this town have even met the guy in person. As far as I can tell he maintains his website so he can play official to lazy journalists and sell mallets & balls.
como is not affiliated with the university too much paperwork and too many rules for the pittance you earn for doing it. Plus I would say that our group is 50/50 students which becoming a student org would divide the group in half
"Us locals can easily create our own rules, or have no rules at all."
I don't see why this couldn't continue... A parallel example would be Triathlons. There are a lot of races that aren't Sanctioned by the USAT. I'm not trying to say that EVERY bike polo tournament needs to follow anything we outline here. I'm just saying it could be beneficial to have a set of uniform rules...
"What is your vision of what bicycle polo should become? Why do you need a national body to make that happen?"
Good question. I don't think I have a perfect answer for you. But, I'd like to see it advance further... I'd like to see more people start playing, and I'd like to see it be easier for people to start clubs anywhere. We already have a lot of inter-city competition in tournaments that are sponsored by big companies. I could see it being easier for companies to sponsor events if we standardize some of them. By having a National Governing Body, all this becomes easier... at least in theory.
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
Here's something you need to wrap your head around if you are worrying about not getting enough support from Companies.
Alleycats.
Have you ever created, designed, planned, gathered volunteers, and executed anything bike related before?
"Have you ever created, designed, planned, gathered volunteers, and executed anything bike related before?"
Yeah, I've helped out with a local alleycat. But, it's Moscow, Idaho. Not nearly as many racers so not nearly as many sponsors or volunteers.
I realize that Alleycats are well sponsored and well received, but that doesn't really mean that Bike polo shouldn't have a national governing body. Obviously, companies are already willing to sponsor tournaments and what not, but my point is, what are we hurting by having a NGB? Seems like we can have more doors open than we do now...
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
Don't worry there are a lot of people who would be happy to see a legitimate governing body. So far there has been one attempt to put something together, and the Worlds in Philly this year was sort of part of that. But for a variety of reasons it hasn't clicked/taken off yet.
Give it time, something will happen.
In the meantime, rules actually ARE pretty standardized with a few minor exceptions, and what minor rules variations remain don't seem to bother those who actually do travel a lot and experience those variations firsthand.
The thing is, we DO have a governing body. I think. Or we might. The thing is, nobody likes it and nobody's in charge. Do you just need to tell your school that "oh hey yeah, there's a federation" or do you have to prove it?
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Does not apply at Los Marcos Melee
Do you just need to tell your school that "oh hey yeah, there's a federation" or do you have to prove it?
And do you want me to sign the form?
_______
Marco!
Really!? That is all we need, thanks!! The thing I'm getting at, is the response to this thread; 21 people responding from all over north america with a signed form in hand at the end of one working day. I can get my school to buy this any day of the week.
I think this is an easy way out of this one...
Like we've said before... "we're not a club" but if I have to tell someone that we're in a club so that we can get something we need, book a court, get discounts through wholesalers or whatever to play polo, then we're a club.
--
bikepolo.com.au
urbanbicyclist.org
my thoughts on some kind of governing body...
- could establish some standard rules (the ones most of us follow already) but allow for regional differences
- could be useful in trying to secure national or international sponsorship possibilities - see below
- could be useful in establishing minimum standards for court size, number or courts, and facilities (food, drink, washrooms) for large tournaments like NA's, Euro's, or Worlds
think about this - what if there was a "fed" that was the umbrella org for all the big, successful tourneys that are well established already (ie: wspi, espi, nspi, nahbpc, eastvan crown, ramsay bowl, etc, etc, etc, etc) which may allow the "fed" to solicit sponsorships for those big tourneys - ensuring that everyone that attends is treated to a top-drawer event. the closest think i can equate this idea to - and i know this is a stretch - is the UCI ProTour.
envision a "polo tour" with 12-15 events with big money and incredible action on incredible courts.
the fed would not prevent anyone from hosting a tourney, just ensure that the big, important tourneys have high quality courts, high quality play, and high quality parties!
ben shultz - jump in here.
just my 2cents.
critique away.
schultz did jump in, what everyone was allooding to earlier was that this is a hot topic that got started, heated then erased, then started again. i dont remember the thread name but it will be obvious if you start to dig
All of these things are exactly what we'd like to see! Thanks for chiming in!
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
How I jumped in before may not reflect how I feel now. Anyway, I want to get in here before this becomes a sprawl.
What Mr. Carter has written above is the most reasonable and practical summation of an approach that could work for us. Spending time at Interbike getting face-time both with companies that have given us great support over the last year but also new companies interested in being involved was eye-opening. The idea of a polo tour or season is very appealing to them. Sponsors would be given a list of our majors, choose which they'd like to sponsor and at what level and then return it to us. This would allow the folks on the ground in the host cities to focus on the most important part of any tourney - facilities - and keep the number of contacts for sponsors to a minimum; sponsors build relationships with a few folks rather than being turned over to somebody else every year/month. This is an idea that has finally found a form we are ready to use. But one of our first responsibilities is establishing the "us".
Anyway, stay tuned here. There have been off-forum discussions happening among folks who have, at this point, accumulated some experience dealing with sponsors and hosting tourneys. With any luck, we'll see something here about this issue for our consideration that will be low stakes (financially) but helpful in all the ways outlined by Mr. Carter.
I started/re-started this thread when I tried to find the Federation and my searches came up with a domain name that had not been renewed. This has already been addressed in this thread and I think I understand what happened.
In response to your post, Ben. Thanks to all of you out there doing the work so the rest of us can play Hardcourt. Sounds to me like we have this winter to plan a tour, regional, national, and international tournaments.
And if you are a college student start a club and we will get a college tour going as well. To be a Student Organization on most campuses does not exclude non-students, as a matter of fact our club Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo includes both community members and students from both WSU and UofI. The only time the club would be limited to students only is in Sport Club competition between schools, this looks to be a ways away.
d.i.y.
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carve. smash. eat shit.
x2
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Marco!
x3!
We are more than willing to do it ourselves, and realize that we probably will be doing something to set-up a collegiate league.
But, since we are a pretty new club, and we are pretty new on this board, we don't want to overstep our boundaries... Just looking for some input you know.
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
Fuck our boundaries. It's great that you're asking questions and seeing what people think. I know that this site in particular is not the governing body but it provides a great space for what is the governing body of polo, The often times out spoken players, to talk.
I think you have a great opportunity to use a schools financial decisions to your benefit and this is a great place to figure out how to do that. Damon has a good point when he says that he will call himself what ever is needed to get a benefit and if a bunch of people signing a piece of paper gets your club a shit ton of money that would be great and a wonderful precedent to set for other clubs in other cities. I know if I could do it I would.
Play polo, use your school to fund your habit, and travel first class.
_______
Marco!
An update on the London situation:
London Hardcourt Bike Polo Association started in England last year for similar reasons; we wanted an ‘official’ body that, on paper, would be governing us, in London at least.
It’s been a messy and difficult process starting this organisation, mainly because there are so many conflicting ideas, directions, and ‘management styles’ (!) even though, at the root of it, everyone just wants to play polo. Some people actually ONLY want to play polo and don’t see the point of the association.
But, we agreed a constitution and we’ve since received funding which helped us get 50 new players, through advertised learner sessions. And we used the association’s name on paper to get essential liability insurance for the Euros event. And we’re working to improve the courts we have and, in the long term, to get a permanent dedicated bike polo court built. This is all very recent, so no huge progress, but watch this space.
One of the other aims is to establish a UK association, and then finally to get hardcourt bike polo recognised as a Sport – something that won't happen without an international association or federation to which we’re clearly affiliated.
An international governing body of some sort will happen eventually. The basic questions are; will it be part of some existing (grass) bike polo association or will someone start a hardcourt body themselves, and if so, who actually does it, how will it work, and what will its powers be?
I imagine these same questions will apply to a national body for the US.
MALICE INTERNATIONAL (London)
Recognized as a sport by who?
"Recognized as a sport by who?"
By cities - help groups get more support for dedicated courts
By more companies - the more legitimate we appear, the easier it is for a company to agree to donate some funds... again, at least in theory.
By other agencies - newspapers, television stations, ESPN, hell I don't know... just more of the population in general. What's that old saying, no press is bad press?
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
enron? that was bad press. 100%
Every single one of those things you listed recognize bike polo as a sport.
You do realize that some of these companies like the fact that its not a "official" sport? Not really looking to be sponsored by Target.
You might not want to be sponsored by Target, but what about Coke? To run large nice tournaments, like a WHCBPC with traffic barriers rather than hay bales, you need cash money. I've seen how nice stuff can be, but I know how expensive it is too, and our entry fees just don't cover some stuff. I can't think of one cash giving sponsoring company that would no longer sponsor us if we were to become official. The companies that like us being "unofficial" give us bags, and hats, and shirts, which are nice, but they won't pay for my traffic barriers.
-We play polo in the ATL
Coke? Hell no. They are as bad or worse as any corporation on the planet.
I was never implying that standardization would make it less appealing to anyone. Nor that a federation is a bad idea. Just trying to point out what is true at the moment.
traffic barriers are shitty walls as well. use the cash to build wooden boards
www.mkebikepolo.com
not necessarily. see the ones from interbike or ehbpc.
i saw and heard about the interbike ones i heard the ball was going under the gaps
www.mkebikepolo.com
Easily remedied. I'm not saying I know it to be the best solution, but we used duct tape to cover the gaps and most of the time, nothing went through. Next time, use something more firm, problem solved.
The characteristic that stuck out was how live the boards were. Ricocheted like a pinball.
The gaps in our barriers for the ehbpc were 5cm high, just enough for a hard shot to stick if it hit just right. Fortunately it was easily remedied by lengths of 2x2 lumber jammed in (2in is just slightly bigger than 5cm).
http://www.oaklandsplastics.com/safety-barriers/road-barriers.asp?Mn=31
We used the RB2000 for behind goals and RB1500 for the sides.
Barriers are expensive though. And no supplier I spoke with would sponsor as the markets don't cross. The type of (non-fenced) boards commonly built for tourneys frighten me. They're like wooden guillotines lining the courts.
Mike,
London, UK.
The ball was not going under the gaps. Peoples shots were hard enough to punch through the tape coveing the holes.
Ben
BRINGING THE RUCKUS
Or how bout we get barriers with no gaps?
We play polo in the ATL
I heard the bounce off the backboards in Vegas was like racquetball. You could miss the goal from mid court and easily pick up your own rebound. Was it like that at ehcbpc?
Any more wisdom on the traffic barriers is appreciated. For SF, money is not so much the barrier as storage. Even if we built/acquired real boards we need a good place to keep them until the next tourney. Storage space costs $$$ month after month. Renting traffic barriers sounds like a possible solution.
Traffic barriers are one solution. Another is to actually use hockey equipment. There are companies all over the States and Canada who make, install, sell new and used, and even rent boards, goals, and whole rinks. Google "dasher boards", "hockey rink", "rental", "used", etc. Some of these are modular, some are permanent.
The rink in Columbia, MO and the portable rink that Lexington, KY uses were made by these people for example.
If you have a really good relationship with your parks department, you may be able to split the purchase/rental/installation costs with them as part of a tourney. They will have the space to store stuff too.
Apparently, the Chicago Parks Dep't has had fiberglass dasher boards in a basement somewhere for years and years, just waiting for bike polo.
Chicago Bike Polo 2003-2008
St Louis Bike Polo 2008-fun
Chukker said you guys have non-profit status. Was that included in this announcement?
who said we should set up a shell organization? this is what I am saying too. The shell brings in money that we then funnel to tourneys and clubs that are putting them on. That way no one has to be in charge, the club organizing the tourney says that they are doing it with *Shell Org* and no one knows any different....except all of us.
If no one's in charge, who gets all of the money? And how does anyone get any money? Someone's always in charge.
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Does not apply at Los Marcos Melee
Onespeed and Offtherail. It's hard for me to say this, but you need to listen to what ben said. If you read the forum, you might have a lot of your questions answered. There was a time on here when people actually talked about polo, and didn't write bad poetry, post about Uggs and the B.O.P.
Kev thanks for generalizing opinions about standardiz(s)ation. When you state an opinion...make it your own. There is at least one person that doesn't share your views on our current 'standardiz(s)ed' rules.
Onespeed and Offtherail. It's hard for me to say this, but you need to listen to what ben said. If you read the forum, you might have a lot of your questions answered. There was a time on here when people Capriotti actually talked about polo, and didn't write bad poetry, post about Uggs and the B.O.P.
edited.
Kev thanks for generalizing opinions about standardiz(s)ation. When you state an opinion...make it your own. There is at least one person that doesn't share your views on our current 'standardiz(s)ed' rules.
Point taken. but i think you're reading into what i said because of my publicly stately concerns about Montana's project as it was being assembled in the last 12 months. I've actually never said i'm against further standardisation, i actually think it's one among several good reasons to to have a governing body. But it doesn't seem to be big priority for (ok, MOST) people who travel to tournaments. maybe i'm wrong.
I wrote 'people' to be intentionally ironic/hypocritical. L-O-L!!!!
I'm not sure you got my point...you seem to still be speaking for (ok, MOST) people.
Can we standardiz(s)e the 's'-'z' situation?
well jeez mark, thats real sweet. i miss you and the old days too. Its fun to just watch sometimes though, but what you do is just creepy
Seeing as the first meeting about a Governing Body took place at LMM last year at 8am on a Saturday, I think the next one should too. Or we just use what ever rules are set down at this years LMM as the standard for all 2010 tournaments.
I've been thinking of all of this for a while now, and really could decide within myself of what my opinions were.. (if that makes sense)
but a few things have popped into my head as of late...
im a hairstylist and talk to a lot of people everyday and lots of them about bike polo... i just happened to be talking to a very successful local attorney last week, telling her how far polo has come, the sponsorships, tournaments, and recent exposure in the media. before i said anything in detail she said "watch out, before nike comes and swipes you up"
this is another reason to think about creating/supporting a federation... if we were, then major corporations would not be able to make money off of what we do... or maybe you do want that sort of exposure. (not being facetious)
just throwing other ideas out about "to have, or not to have" other than just rules and concepts.
Bicycle/cykel/自行車/das Fahrrad/polkupyörä/bicicletta/bicicleta/reiðhjól/fiets/يَرْكَبُ درّاجة هوائ
"watch out, before nike comes and swipes you up"
this is another reason to think about creating/supporting a federation... if we were, then major corporations would not be able to make money off of what we do... or maybe you do want that sort of exposure. (not being facetious)
What does that even mean? Just because we're "official" or something doesn't mean anyone can't come in and make heaps of money "off of us". If that's what they want to do, they'll just do it. Hah. Nike.
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Does not apply at Los Marcos Melee
i understand, but i believe that legally that if they want to "use us" or "use the federation" they must ask before making money off of us...
Bicycle/cykel/自行車/das Fahrrad/polkupyörä/bicicletta/bicicleta/reiðhjól/fiets/يَرْكَبُ درّاجة هوائ
This whole thread is a bunch of DeJa Vu. Do any of the people calling for a NGB/IGB in this thread realize that the Worlds was the first Hardcourt Bike Polo Federation sanctioned event? One of the reasons that there was a EHCBP, NAHCBP and WHCBP championships this year was to establish precedent and copyright. Did the Fed survive the Worlds??
If somebody wants to take the reigns from Montana and work on getting this thing altitude (did it get off the ground?), I'm sure he would be happy to talk to you. He's already done a ton of the legal work required to establish the corporate entity that is needed for a NGB/IGB.
This thread is so damned redundant.
The Fed has a corporate charter as a Delaware non-stock corporation. Technically, it’s not all the way "there" yet...it still needs bylaws and a board of directors if it is to survive. I'd say survival is in doubt at this point.
Montana and I spoke about this at the Worlds but I think some input from the man is due here. Montana:
Why was the Fed created?
Why do you not want to continue with it?
What type of person do you foresee giving this entity legs?
What do you envision for the future of bike polo and do you feel the need to "protect" it?
These questions are important to suss out as you obviously still find worth in the concept (and I see value in it too).
B.O.P. 4-EVA
Exactly why this thread need to continue its conversation... and i believe that everyone's views should be expressed.
Bicycle/cykel/自行車/das Fahrrad/polkupyörä/bicicletta/bicicleta/reiðhjól/fiets/يَرْكَبُ درّاجة هوائ
Goddamn it I really used to like this website. Im going back to hardcourtbikepolo.com
3...2...1...GO!
Mallets Of Mayhem
Little Richmond Bike Polo
just for the record, i would be surprised if montana shows his face around here for a while. which is unfortunate because now that we all have seen what it is like to have a fed supported tourney, it really makes me think this whole governing body is a good idea
for reference
i would like to see this discussion to continue, perhaps with input from montana himself. also its worth noting that www.hardcourtbicyclepolofederation.com is no longer a website....
Thank you for posting that.
insert bethovens 5th here
The link still works. Just clicked on it and went straight to the fed website.
-We play polo in the ATL
in sorting this all out in my head to see if I am for or against all this fed talk and legitimizing bike polo stuff, I tried to think of what attracted me to polo in the first place. It was about getting together and meeting like minded individuals who want to ride bikes, drink beer, poke smot, and hit a ball around at a goal for hours on end. And I like this... then I started thinking about if all of the students that play here in Austin started a club in school and got the school to fund events and the such... what happens to those not in school... are we still allowed to play with the students, because as it is now, I can't just use the intramural fields to go play soccer, football, or rugby, or the tennis courts to play tennis.... I don't have a school I.D. While all of the students are playing on their nice bike polo specific court(in theory), all the rest of us would still be out at the old crappy tennis courts drinking beer and having a good time playing with ourselves... and when the school kids threw a tourney sanctioned by the school as inter-collegiate activity... we would have to pay to get in to watch, because we couldn't play! But then what if there were city leagues for bike polo, we would have to reserve courts to play/practice, pay fees to register, pay fees for the court, buy uniforms, pay for referees, so we could do what we have been doing all along... play polo...
still not sure if I am for this or not...
see just as much as you fear the college kids ruining everything if we dont have some sort of "fed" its just going to get eaten up by mountain dew and x games or college kids and whatsnot and you still will be paying to get in and not playing. thats why a fed of some sort needs to happen so that we can keep our game and not let it loose. the fed doesnt have to control us we control it. and it doesnt have to progress just make sure it stays how we want it!
and no matter what we can and always will still drink beers and sodas and have good times with our friends on our shitty courts and fight our way to nice courts. thats why we are here "hashing it out" and going to tournaments and going on road trips and enjoying what we have now!
Ryan -
How is a Fed going to keep us from getting eaten up by mountain dew? We've discussed this in the other thread. I don't think there's anything about a fed that will prevent that.
x2
I can agree with this, so then about the original question of groups of students at a University starting clubs and getting money to do bigger and better things... What advantage does this have for those not in school? And, just for the record, if I were in school still, I'd join the club team! But since I'm not, would something like this break up the local scene or would things really get better for everyone? If a local school club/team put on a tourney would non-students be able to play? Probably not!
Why not? At the Atlanta Midsummer we used the courts that we have on the Georgia Tech campus. Tech allowed us to use the courts, and perhaps only 4 or 5 people there were actually students. Didn't break up our scene or prevent anybody from playing. We're not talking about making collegiate leagues, just about making it so that people who can get free money from a university get that ability. If I hadn't just graduated I'd be trying to do this too. I like it when "The Man" gives me my money back to do what I was going to do anyway.
We play polo in the ATL
you are correct about the IP daniel, except that bike polo is not and will never be IP, and is certainly not ingrained in the north american psyche like basketball or football and is thus not easily transferrable-- you can't turn on the tv and say, "hey honey, there's some bike polo-like game on tv" a la XFL because no one knows what the hell bike polo is yet.
a governing body could easily boycott any tournament nike wanted to hold and i think that players would respect sanctions if the same governing body showed positive results through well-run tournaments and excellent sponsorship relations.
we don't need trademarks, we already "own" bike polo because we are the only ones who know how to play it, the ones who run the central information website, and are the ones that have the connections to pull off a successful and competitive tournament with top-notch players that a big corp would want to showcase and shill their product at.
nike would want to go through a governing body rather than subvert the sport anyway, it's far cheaper, far more effective, and far less risky. without a governing body they could do whatever they want because there is no collective voice in opposition to them.
a governing body would use a sponsor like nike but retain control of the sport because they have the interests of the game in mind, not the selling of sweatshop joggers.
nike could still hold whatever tournament they want outside of the governing body's sanction, but they couldn't call it a north american or world championships or a north side or an east side... and they can't expect the cream of the crop to show up just because they flash some money around.
a governing body would go after better sponsors anyway and have no need for nike.
the main reasons i see for going after something like a governing body is to arrange the tournament rotation through the cities and regions to ensure fairness, quality, and exposure for the sport; and to sit at the table across from potential sponsors and permit-granting bodies as a collective bargainer with experience and a track-record of successes.
the governing body would be charged with the stewardship of the game at the national and international level, ensuring that decisions are made for the good of the game-- not made for corporations, cities, or individual players.
it could be comprised of reps selected by each region, numbering around twelve with a seven person quorum. a regionally representative four-person executive of a chair, vice-chair, treasurer, and secretary selected by the body could handle the daily affairs and bi-weekly meetings. minutes would be published and members could take input from their region, all very standard board stuff. non-profit and charitable status is both easy to get and would be huge for sponsorships and tax receipts.
my motto for such a body would be "more polo played in more places by more players more often".
a governing body could prevent nike from changing bike polo to make it more suitable for whatever audience they want to sell it to.
at this moment nike could not hold a tournament on their own because only polo players know how to do that properly. it's time to form a governing body so that a corporation like nike has to go through it to make any money off of bike polo, not the other way around.
anyway, that's my unorganised two cents. in the end i think that we have far more power than we think but should act before things get unwieldy or our hands are forced.
i would hope that the utter failure of the fed this to put on a world championship worth going to but took all of our money anyway would spur us into action.
TLDR YOU FWEF;LNAWEFOIJCKING GOIN DOWN!!
Not sure about this guy, but I like the sound of this jackal. I would join an org that was set up similarly.
We play polo in the ATL
But you're assuming that Nike would be jackasses about it. If we did have a governing body what's to say they don't work with us to make the next NAHCBPC, EHCBPC, or Worlds a bang-up Production? Their money and influence could be just as easily used with us as outside of us. I just don't think that if we started doing things ourselves that people who want to sponsor and promote the same thing would just piss all over us. It makes no sense to me.
I do agree that fourtune 500 companies need to become the sponsors for bigger tourneys? To get nice venues, supplies, and stuff small companies can't compete. I'd Prefer Tourney registration to stay below $20, and that just means that we need somebody else shelling out the cash.
We play polo in the ATL
uh
you are so right, i *am* high, and oh no, i'm glad there's a detractor, you have nothing to apologise for.
i'm glad that someone articulate is on the other end of this debate and that you're the one making the case. i want this argument to be had, i think it serves the purposes of debate and discovery, and i think that you make perfect sense all over the place. (are you any good at polo because that might be hard to handle, what if you were laying down big shots from outside like you throwing around those non sequiters... )
i *do* believe nike could sweep in (like a bird of prey) and bundle up the whole thing for about ten grand.
twenty if you include all of hawkk's legal bills.
but i haven't read even had a chance to read your whole big rebuttal thingy and polo is not my life, blah, blah, blah, so it's going to take a minute or two.
but that didn't stop me from starting the response while on the phone with benschicago and kev walsh:
"So what you're saying is that, technically speaking, Nike's little underground cool-hunter division isn't really doing its job then..."
you just wait motherfucker.
you.
just.
wait.
"So what you're saying is that, technically speaking, Nike's little underground cool-hunter division isn't really doing its job then..."
...
or perhaps we're not as cool as we think we are...
you can dream whatever dream you want to dream nick, but we all think you are super-cool.
no matter what nike tells us to say.
everyone has seen this, i'm sure. just so you know, nike's underground cool-hunter division has found polo:
---------------------------
carve. smash. eat shit.
Well I can't speak for every school, but if you were playing here, you would certainly not be excluded from playing. We are organizing both of our schools programs to accept and allow community members to join in all aspects EXCEPT in the intercollegiate play at tournaments, so this means they can play pick-up every week, come to meetings, help organize events, etc.
One of our first steps in doing this is to host the Palouse Cup in a few weeks. We got around this by having two separate brackets, one for anyone from anywhere to come and register to play in, and the other for only current college teams. The brackets will play separately, so the college players can play in the open tournament and in the collegiate bracket without any worry of overlap.
As for everything else, nothing will stop you from going to play polo just like you are doing now... basically what you're doing now is just like a group of people getting together and playing a game of basketball or tennis or soccer or any other sport that can be played on city parks.
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
Offtherail and friends -
The folks above are right, you can search the "old" threads and see the original discussion about a bike polo governing body, a lot of the questions you bring up are argued there. What I'd encourage you to do is: travel. Come to some tournaments that draw players from all over the country (I know that's probably a lot more difficult for you in Idaho than it is for us here in NYC). Talk to people, make some new friends, get a feeling for polo community - it's that network of friends that's the real governing body. This website is definitely the place we hash out a lot of our differences, but anything substantial that happens here is based on people being together in person, playing polo and hanging out in each other's cities.
I'm not opposed to some type of polo federation, but I don't really care about our sport "progressing" either - I love it the way it is. I think that a fed. will happen organically when the time is appropriate.
Come visit us here in NYC, you'll have a place to crash, free tour guides, and lots of polo.
I'd love to travel but the current budget (money and even bigger factor, time) doesn't allow for much of that...yet. I graduate in December and should have some time to get out of Idaho. I'd really like to start going to more events and meeting more people in this community and I honestly couldn't agree more that this network and connection between everyone playing is the real governing body.
One day I will take you up on the NYC offer... one day. haha
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
you can have a separate underground scene even if polo gets huge and commercialized. the formation/existence of the NBA doesn't stop pickup b-ball tournaments (awesome players show up happy to play a more PURE game) and the MLS doesn't stop underground soccer leagues (a couple of us older players used to get together with some old pros and rebellious college players and just meetup and destroy each other without all the regulations, refs and such). any sport can be played at the grassroots level and they couldn't stop those interested from having the same kind of tournaments we have now. you don't have to go play the sanctioned tourneys if that's not your thing but it definitely shouldn't stop the d.i.y. players from continuing to enjoy the game they love...in the way they love it.
FTL BIKE POLO...
"any sport can be played at the grassroots level and they couldn't stop those interested from having the same kind of tournaments we have now. you don't have to go play the sanctioned tourneys if that's not your thing but it definitely shouldn't stop the d.i.y. players from continuing to enjoy the game they love...in the way they love it."
Couldn't agree more. Nothing that a federation could do would change your local pick-up game if you didn't want it to.
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
I didn't really read all of this but it's pretty safe to say that richmond is forgainst it
Isn't Forgainst a kind of cheese? Anybody from one of those northern cow states want to chime in?
We play polo in the ATL
Streetpolo for life.
74 Miles per hour bitches.
Has any club in the U.S. gotten big enough or started any formal league play like they're doing over in London now? It seems that this would be the natural "next step," so to speak! From looking at there site, they have 17 formal teams, they all play each other and are ranked on their wins in a 3 game set up... I like this a lot... here's the link:
Calgary does.
B.O.P. 4-EVA
...and they've been doing it for longer.
... but who REALLY gives a shit.
well, calgary probably does. and maybe london feels like following in the paths of excellence.
and here i thought i was supposed to be taking things too seriously when you so obviously have that part of the operation down.
i can tell you that the players here in calgary take league VERY SERIOUSLY. as you can imagine, when you play the same people over and over the intensity can get pretty serious, more serious than out-o-town tourneys.
the big benefit has been that when you play with the same teammates week after week you learn the game faster and get better faster.
we had 9 teams this year (and about a dozen subs), we played each team twice in the round robin, and then the final 6 teams went into the final playdowns. unfortunately the snow has halted the final games - for now. hopefully we can get them in soon.
from my own, fairly newbie perspective (having only been playing for a year), league has upped my gamne big time and i cant wait to get at it again in 2010. i dont know how i compare to other players, but feel like i am on a pretty steep learning curve.
take that!
I've been out of this conversation for a while... mostly to read up on the past threads about this topic.
From what I gathered, it pretty much just fizzled away because no one could agree on everything, much like I fear this thread will do too.
Although I do think it is a bit of a stretch to be worried about a big time company coming in and taking our sport from under us, I don't think it would really matter if we had a federation or governing body in place if they wanted to or not... Capitalism. It's all about money.
I do think that having an official (or hell even unofficial) federation or governing body would help more than hinder.
Based on everything I've read so far, some positives for having something like this in place would be:
-develop a standard set of rules
-Organize bigger and better events with more cooperation from all involved (city/parks and rec/sponsors/players)
-make it easier/more comfortable for sponsors to give money to "the Federation" instead of individuals for tournaments
-make cities more accepting to us asking for official courts
-possibly get cheaper insurance for any tournament by buying through the federation where we could get a group discount instead of individuals buying it for each tournament
-Makes it easier for someone anywhere in the world to start up a new group
Some of the negatives I've read:
-Cost of annual dues
-Where the money would go and how those who don't play tournaments would benefit from paying
-don't want to sell out the sport
-don't want to lose out on their weekly games to the federation players
-still doesn't provide protection against large corporations swooping in and trying to make a buck off us (is there anything that we could do to prevent this?? I'm not aware of it if there is...)
-some think it's too soon and that the local clubs should develop further first (not a terrible idea, but couldn't the local clubs still develop further by having something to model after?)
-want a non-profit instead of a "for-profit" corporation
-don't see a point for the federation period
I'd like to keep this conversation going... if anyone has any other positives or negatives to add, please chime in. I think it's important to be talking about, and I'm thankful for not getting shunned outta town so to say for coming in here as a new face and starting up this whole mess again.
Sorry for the length of the post... I also learned that's generally a bad idea. Oops.
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
Wikipedia says "By definition, the difference between a confederation and a federation is that the membership of the member states in a confederation is voluntary, while the membership in a federation is not."
think about that. would we be required to join the "federation" because we want to further organize in our local area? Or could there be a more decentralized form of organization for us all!?
OK, I just came up with a good reason why having a governing body is a good idea. And it has nothing to do with sponsors. I dont' give a crap about sponsors. I'll take $10K from Nike in a heartbeat. Fuck you.
Media.
Good Morning America just contacted NYC Bike Polo & they want to use some footage for a segment in the near future. Publicity. This is potentially huge. And what graphic do I tell them to put on their screens during the segment? NYCbikepolo.com? bikepolo.ca? hardcourtlongasswebsiteaddressfederation.com? None of those are appropriate.
I've ignored this thread for a little while because it got back on the redundant useless sponsor bickering theme. I *am* going to respond to Good Morning America, but I'm going to plan my response out first. I'm talking to my flack in PR (who used to work for Nike, FWIW), to make sure this works out best for everyone.
Anyhow, i'm probably going to go back to ignoring this thread, because not much good stuff comes from it - and I'm going to talk privately to the people who make sense and will do something about it. VIVALOSMARCOS (i think my hangover finally kicked in).
********************************
Does not apply at Los Marcos Melee
Media is happening already, what's the point of having a governing body to get publicity if we are already getting publicity....?
so you didn't actually come up with anything, you just added to pointless garble... nice.
I have, and for us, obviously it is crap, because we understand the game as so much more, but the media isn't about us for us, it's about us, for those who know nothing of the sport, and I doubt those people find it as crap, at least not the ones I've talked to.
So then how does this organization that doesn't exist yet going to turn the coverage Good Morning America is going to give to NYC bike polo into something that doesn't suck?
damnit. i promised myself I was gonna go ahead and ignore this thread again.
More accurate information. Centralized place to get said information. Well organized structure of contacts for people to pursue more regional information. Stuff that makes us look like we've got our shit together.
Ugh. I'm out again.
Ryan, where the hell were you this weekend?
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Does not apply at Los Marcos Melee
"Stuff that makes us look like we've got our shit together."
Fuckin' A.
I also agree... there is nothing we can do to stop a big company from putting on or wanting to sponsor an event. I would easily take 10k from Nike all the way to the bank too, but that doesn't change the point of a federation.
Kyle
Pullman/Moscow Bike Polo
"More accurate information. Centralized place to get said information. Well organized structure of contacts for people to pursue more regional information. Stuff that makes us look like we've got our shit together."
If that is all that you want then you don't want a federation or a confederation. What you want is a network and an archive. Which isn't that far fetched nor substantially different from what we have between here and hardcourtbikepolo.com, except that this place is dominated more by the forum than by the networking/archiving aspects, and hardcourtbikepolo.com is doug's site. And the only reason that we don't look like we have our shit together is because arguing and trash-talking are more fun than getting along, so that's what we spend most of our time doing. We don't need a fed to set up a network/archive site, just someone to volunteer to set it up and moderate it, and to keep it looking professional, coherent and representative. But that's a shit-ton of work and not much fun.
OK, I just came up with a good reason why having a governing body is a good idea.
Fuck you.
Good Morning America just contacted NYC Bike Polo & they want ...
I *am* going to respond to Good Morning America...
Anyhow, i'm probably going to go back to ignoring this thread...
I'm going to talk privately...
Ken, if I read this correctly you're saying we need a governing body so you can do what you want. You are going to ignore any input you get from outside your circle.
Sounds to me like you need an agent, not a governing body.
good morning america, are you serious?, sometimes i wonder why you people play this game. nothing is wrong. no one is going to take us over, this is a past time not a fucking sport, also it kinda a vacationing network. what we need is a tour. that way we can plan out vacation out better. and due to you fucking idiocy ken, you dont get to be on the board , but dont wory, those rules dont apply at los marcos. people will still come to your tourny every year even if its not on the tour, wanna know why. cause its not polo. its drinking for people who have drinking problems or have to go to funerals of their relatives that have drinking problems. just because you travel to drink doesnt mean your not still a drunk. i didnt feel this way about you till you stated talking about fucking regis and kathy lee
Lovely reading this is.
oh boy