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ESPI V Thread #2

Thread #2 for ESPI V in NYC Jun 26/27 2010. I also started a new tournament thread for Ladies Army II.

Last time i checked the rules had just been posted...

See also the first thread: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/espi-5-the-ladies-army-ii

So, this tournament is not affiliated with the north american regional nonsense then? This is a whole different game and set of rules than I have ever seen played with, other than Bike hockey tournaments such as Bench Minor that was designed specifically as a change of pace, or so I believed. I'm interested to hear why the rules were designed this way as we lean towards a more standardized tournament setup for the "regional qualifiers"

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

I spoke to Ben Schultz about rules that were used for the Midwest's most recent tournament, and he said they were more or less based on what the NAH has been working to develop, but also informed me that they didn't follow them to the letter of the law, and also that the rules are really still in the development process.
Zach drafted these rules with the main focus of making the game play more entertaining for spectators and participants. We used a similar set for Bench Minor and to be honest, the game did not look much different than anything you've seen or played. the pace was quick, and players were required to show respect for their opponent or pay the price of serving a penalty and leaving their team shorthanded. For the most part, players stayed out of the box.
With nets, estimated goal height and the "was that a goal?" debate was eliminated. If you play good, clean polo, you'll forget that the rules are any different than the game you've always played and loved. We're putting refs in place because stakes are high, people travel from afar to participate, and we don't want injury or game results based on speculation or players' responsibility to police themselves. That just doesn't happen in big tournaments. This is the East Coast tournament, we've put a ton of our own time and money into hosting it, and Zach ran rule changes by our regional reps, who voted to support this rule set. If regional tournaments were funded by a National body, I'd see the need to clear rules with everyone. We think these will benefit all players and make for a safe, fair, and enjoyable tournament. We're defining parameters and making a contribution.

The no-bj in the front court won't make things look terribly different, but the wristshot and no-interference rules certainly will. Setting picks and blocking defenders from going left or right and clearing a path for your teammate on the ball is the bread-and-butter of good polo from what I've seen. You carry until someone is on you, pass it, and ride in a way that stops a defender from being able to get to the ball. I don't see why that's undesirable at all. Is the goal of such a rule to stop people from just parking in front of someone and pinning them? Because that doesn't happen very often. I don't understand the motivation for the rule (maybe it's just because I don't understand the rule to begin with..)

The wristshot will make things interesting. If the rule is as I imagine it, then I'll be shooting 180 slingshots around my front wheel through the keeper's triangle. I'll feel like it's cheating, but if everyone else is going to do it, might as well. I thought scoring was easy enough before the wristshot.

The wristshot

*moved*

ALL DAY LONG HE WILL BE SCORING 180 DEGREE SLINGSHOTS... ALL... DAY... LONG!

MARK PETE'S WORDS, YOU WILL RUE THE DAY YOU MADE THIS LEGAL!

Exactly. Well done, Daniel.

There isnt enough time.

Pete,
Play the ball. That should help you with any issues with the interference rule. Not to default to the "Well at bench minor" statement BUT at bench minor this interference call was not a huge issue. Most people played how they normally would play and did not end up with calls.

Also was not aware that the move had been renamed the slingshot. DO NOT LIKE

You have to go out of town to get inside jokes.
============================
themeans.xxx
themeansbikepolo.com
fixcraft

I heard Chris Simpson call it the U-turn when it's a 180, and I like that name better.

And play the ball? Psh, I may be vegetarian but it's going to be a goddamn meatlovers pizza when I'm on the court. T-bones, chicken wings, etc.

OK have fun then. Just trying to help clarify a way to deal with the rule. Works out for me anyway i love pizza NY has the best.

You have to go out of town to get inside jokes.
============================
themeans.xxx
themeansbikepolo.com
fixcraft

pete wrote:

Setting picks and blocking defenders from going left or right and clearing a path for your teammate on the ball is the bread-and-butter of good polo from what I've seen. You carry until someone is on you, pass it, and ride in a way that stops a defender from being able to get to the ball. I don't see why that's undesirable at all. Is the goal of such a rule to stop people from just parking in front of someone and pinning them? Because that doesn't happen very often.

Excellent point Pete. Here! Here!

I reacted the same way when I read the Bench Minor rules, No offensive screens? wtf?
However, that isn't quite the case. Interference will be called when an offensive player physically prevents a defender from playing the ball.
That's body contact off the ball to make a lane for your teammate. You can still steer a defensive player away from your teammate, but you can't move them away. You can be there, but it's about positioning, not brute force.

coffee, whiskey, beer. repeat.

i'm not sure if that's true. if you're blocking my path to the ball, as a defender i can shoulder check you to get there. then it becomes contact, but is it the defender who is instigating contact or the guying who's running interference? i'm pretty sure this is mean to cover all intentional picks, not just those that involve contact, and that's how it was often called at BM.

mad_sam (not verified)

I was a die-hard pick-setter before seeing these rules posted for Bench Minor, and changed my style of play to give this a shot. Guess what? It made me a better player. Instead of dicking around trying to screw with defenders, I was getting open to receive a pass.

X 2

i like that

Doug D
Brooklyn, New York
hardcourtbikepolo+gmail+com
hardcourtbikepolo.com

Great point, Sam.

Don't get me wrong. Picks are great if it fits with the flow of the game, i.e. remaining where you are makes sense in the moment. But other than that, actively hunting the defense when you could be spreading them out and creating a play is a failing strategy.

Does anyone else feel like we are getting and East vs. West split in polo rules?

No, I feel like the sport is evolving and that we have a bunch of players on the west side who have yet to play with these (really minor changes in the) rules and see how they really do improve game play and tournament flow.

Maybe. Like AL vs. NL in baseball.

The individual N.A. hardcourt communities/regions are growing closer and closer. It's reasonable that some folks might feel a need to experiment after absorbing a bigger picture, if they feel an aspect of the game could be improved or has become stagnant. And experimentation is key. Even if 75% of what was tried is tossed, the 25% that's retained is worth the learning experience.

Yes. Let's make a national organizing body to work these things out. Meanwhile, everyone keep playing polo.

The interference/pick thing I need to see. I don't get it in writing. Regulating a particular move requires people who know it and can enforce it. Perhaps everyone will come back from ESPI'10 and the pick rule will be the new thing. Or not.

Wide nets, narrow nets, cones...these just don't seem like a big deal to me.

The wrist scoop, in my opinion, has the potential to turn regional variation into a regional split. A shot is a very big part of how a person plays. Allowing/disallowing a type of shot would have a strong influence on whether someone would play in a tournament. Imagine a softball league that started allowing overhand pitches. Or an American football league that decided the QB could make underhand forward passes. Those rule changes would have major implications for strategy and styles of play. It seems the same could be true of wrist scoop shooting.

Paul, I respect the amount of time you and other new yorkers have put into this tournament. After watching Portland put on three in two months and seeing cecily organize the Ladies army I have the greatest respect for anyone willing to do that. I raise these questions because in my opinion your rules are very different, legitimizing the wrist shot (I did read Adams response in regards to this shot but I still do not think it has any place in this game) and the interference rule (which I think is largely unenforceable)are the two obvious examples. What I am curious to know is why you chose to include these rules in this tournament and why the divergence from NAH.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

Mike, i think that the rule base used in this tournament was very successful for the bench minor tourney. The interference rule was mostly self enforced and help open up the game and led to faster, more fluid games. The wrist shot was a non factor at bench minor and i assume the same here. I think ESPI is a great place for people to experiment with the rules and I applaud them for doing this. The sport is too young for us to set in stone how it should be played.

This is the most sensible thing anyone from the mid-west has ever said.

Exactly.

jonny wrote:

Mike, i think that the rule base used in this tournament was very successful for the bench minor tourney. The interference rule was mostly self enforced and help open up the game and led to faster, more fluid games. The wrist shot was a non factor at bench minor and i assume the same here. I think ESPI is a great place for people to experiment with the rules and I applaud them for doing this. The sport is too young for us to set in stone how it should be played.

Jonny, Thank you for this. These are the opinions that I wanted to read about these rules. Reading them and having never played them it is very easy to imagine the possibility of rampant referee whistles and low flying scoop shots raining from every angle. I enjoy playing polo with the familiar rules that I've used and I agree that as we approach a "rule book" that there shoudl be some experimentation. The issue that I come across is when I see attempts at standardization and then a regional tournament changes things. I wonder wether or not the timing could have been different, using these rules in a different tournament or simply releasing them earlier. However it comes about I will be interested to se fi these rules persist in any other setting.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

Medic.Mike wrote:

low flying scoop shots raining from every angle.

We tested this as a skill at polo camp. From 15 feet, stationary ball, no pressure, I'd say people shot less than 15% trying to scoop above the wheels of a plywood goalie. Almost everyone who was good at scooping ended up shooting over the goal, and that was on a 4-ft tall hockey goal. Its really not that big a thing.

That would have been neat to see. I watched one of the Seattle boys play "scoop catch" with someone else on the ground (no bike or mallet). His scoops were more accurate then the guys throwing the ball. Pretty fantastic.

Interestingly, we also had an 80-foot scoop-pass event and a few people were able to scoop pretty reliably into about a 12-foot square over that distance. I think keeping the trajectory low enough for a longer range scoop-shot is the big issue because you have to release the scoop so soon after you pick the ball up, but still have enough force to throw the ball pretty fast.

Really looking forward to seeing what people can do this weekend!

I'm assuming these are the rules for LA also?

Nope.

Ladies Army will not follow the same rules as ESPI. While we support the rules that have been drafted for ESPI, we just don't want to bother with the extra hassle of policing them. We're lazy.

The rules for LAII will generally follow the rules drafted for the North Americans (found here: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/rules/2010/04/01/north-american-hardco...). Any departures will be discussed on the morning of the tournament.

We will have refs to enforce penalties (yellow cards, red cards, ejection) for unnecessarily rough, dangerous, or otherwise illegal play.

We will have goals. They will measure 100cm x 200cm (larger than called for in the NA rules).

We will play 10 minute games during our seeding rounds.

People who want to debate the rules should check out these threads:

On offensive screens (aka obstruction/interference): http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/general/2010/02/18/offensivedefensive-...

On wrist shots: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/rules/2010/03/23/scoop-shots-legal-or-...

On what people thought about the rules at Bench Minor: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/tournaments/2010/03/23/lessons-from-be...

There is now one slot open for a team in ESPI 5. One team has withdrawn due to travel cost.

please email Zach if you have detailed questions about the rules.

Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch about the rules (mine were in a bunch, and after hearing out the explanations have been sufficiently unbunched), check this out: http://www.laekhouse.com/blog/?p=887

I'm getting so psyched!

in regards to the rules, resting on the crossbar of the goal is considered a dab (rightfully so). is there a penalty for balancing yourself (rolling back/forwards, jumping bike) if you hit the goal frame but still have control, ie not leaning/resting or depending on the crossbar for balance? boards look good, getting antsy!

no penalty bro. let's hop together

Fuck it dude I'm gonna come play polo and if I get called I get called and whatever. BE FUCKING RELENTLESS!!!!!!! BE TOTALLY FUCKING RELENTLESS!!!!!!

Yo Dawg I heard you like redundancies so we got a PIN number for your PIN

Looking forward to meeting another fellow 1x1 poloist. See you in a week or so!

here are all the teams registered for espi V. look it over. please email me, intoxitommy@gmail.com, if you have any changes or questions regarding your team.

Gnomadic Insanity
Zach Blackburn NYC
Doug Dalrymple NYC
Paul Rauen NYC

Hate Puppy
Lisa Moffit East Van
Amanda Pease Tampa
Stu Su Sarasota

Ken and the Barbies
Ken Stanek NYC
Fiona Ryan NYC
Sara Wojcik NYC

Dans Ta Gueule Puceau
Kevin Walsh Toronto
Hugo Laquerbe Paris
Pierre Le Lama Paris

You Know Who We Are
Shane Murphy DC
Megan Murphy DC
David "Tink" Sachs DC

Silent Majority
Chris Roberts NYC
Alexis Mills Ottawa
Mark Capriotti Philly

Liquid Swords
Sean McCormick RVA
Nate Mumford NYC
Dave Currence NYC

Bloodbath and Beyond
Pete Abram Columbia, MO
Chris Williams Columbia, MO
Sven Svenfjord Minneapolis

Flightless Albino Squish Bats
Jon Birdseye NYC
Jarrett "Chairman Gigante" Shamlian Boston
Bri "Pequeño" Nichols Boston

Your Favorite Foreign Movie
Eric Crandall Portland
Drew Kinney Portland
Capt. Jake Newborn MKE

Broken Femur
Arlyn Bement DC
Eric Ransom DC

Longshots
Triane Tambay Victoria, BC
Johan Ramirez DC
Erin Phil Victoria, BC

The Saddlebags
Jasmine Jones Austin
Maureen Grady Austin
Tina Medley Austin

Slay and Destroy
Jason Stevenson Portland
Kayla Traisman Portland
Timothy Weeks Portland

Hot Lunch
Javier Garcia-Albera Boston
Tobi Howell Boston
Gustave Hoilland Boston

East Vanties
Shannon Frey Vancouver
Naomi Manin'tVeld Vancouver
Cara Fisher Vancouver

Philly
Brendan Graham Philly
Peter Dalkner Philly
Brendan Mchugh Philly

Beavers
Brian Dillman MKE
Eric Kremin MKE
Joe Burge Brown Deer, WI

crank-e-cooters
Valerie Marquis Sarasota/Fort Myers
Jessica Ahern Sarasota/Fort Myers
Nellie Colon Sarasota/Fort Myers

birds of paradise
Bernadette Watts MKE
Maija Eliashevsky Melbourbe, AU
Chandel Bodner NYC

The Killer Ladybugs
Cordelia Horsburgh Victoria, BC
Naomi Adams Victoria, BC
Valley Fotsch Victoria, BC

Johnny Fever
Johnny Crash Richmond, VA
Zack boom boom boom Richmond, VA
Ryan Saulsbury Richmond, VA

When Push Comes to Shove
Michael Schower DC
Joseph Fawls St Petersburg, FL
Jared Rader Sarasota, FL

The Moonshiners
Tiffany Morrow Lexington, KY
Jessi Connors Lexington, KY
Megan Stanton Lexington, KY

Machine Politics
Ben Schultz Chicago, IL
Joe Panizzo Chicago, IL
Matt Lane Chicago, IL

Everyone Else
Gena Perala Vancouver, BC
Quinn Shamm Syracuse, NY
Krista Carlson LA, Cal

Fetus Fajita
Tommy Green Little los marcostan
Adam Menace NYC
Johnny Midwest NYC

Team Smile
Leon Ettelson Seattle
Sebastien Michel-Hart Seattle
Dustin Riggs Seattle

Dan Savage and The Awesomes
Daniel Dilberger New Orleans, LA
Shelly Hicks Ottawa, Ont, Canada
Andrew Hayter Ottawa, Ont, Canada

Slaying with Hate
Lee Geer Dayton, OH
Lee S. Dayton, OH
Elton John Jon Dayton, OHIGHO

Spoken Three
Megan Mazzei Chicago, IL
Rita Verga Troy, NY
TBD

Apologies
Marc Sich Paris
Louis David Najar Paris
Yorgo Tloupas Paris

Nancy Drew Crew
Kat McCarthy Minneapolis, MN
Jessica Horning Washington, DC
Ashley Bayer Blooomington, IN

Bourbonic plague
Nick McLean Lexington ky
Chris Simpson Lexington ky
Rich Lopez Lexington ky

Crimson Lobotomy
Cecily Upton Portland, OR
Meg Lee Portland, OR
Brian Bolles Chicago, IL

Swing Dick-bot
Nick Chenoweth Columbus
Peter Brown Columbus
David Frankhouser Columbus

Bad Boy Things
Rob Biddle Philadelphia, PA
Tommy Manson Philadelphia, PA
Cris Trout Philadelphia, PA

Ballz Deep
Rory Crowley Vancouver
Pieter Blokker Vancouver
Chris Proul Proulx Vancouver

bruins
james lavenson Boston, MA
jon nania Boston, MA
jake jakenson Boston, MA

NYPD
CHOMBO NYC, RVA, MKE
BIG WERM
THE HEWITT

Leisure Suit Larry Byrd
Nick Vaughan RVA
Ian Dunwiddie RVA
Joshua Thomas RVA

Penis Between Us
Jonathan Lomax Pittsburgh, PA
Greg Russo Pittsburgh, PA
Greg Brunner Pittsburgh, PA

Boner Jamz '03
Samantha Luisi Deerfield Beach, Florida
Kelli Jurewicz Boca Raton, Florida
Christi-An Hansley Fort lauderdale, florida

killa bees
Mike young RVA
will brittle RVA
nathan Cunningham RVA

Jim Henson's Polo Babies
Sven Mattson Minneapolis, MN
Brian Chasm Washington, DC
Jesee French Seattle/Troy, NY

dirty south
Alix Nelson Boca raton FL
tyler ferguson Ft myers florida
Jason farthing west palm beach,florida

Killer B's
Amanda Mills Milwaukee, WI
Caitlin Hagness Milwaukee, WI
Naomi Szczesiul Indianopolis, IN

[edited to include doug d's easier to read version --kev]

i will put an updated version up on saturday night/sunday morning once people have a chance to look this over and get the emails in.
don't worry your team is getting updated even if the above list doesn't change.

.

Two teams named the Killer Bees. Fight to the death.

BRRRAAPPP CANT WAIT

some good looking teams up there...
my humble predictions:

Ballz Deep
Silent Majority
Smile
Leisure Suit Larry Byrd
Gnomadic Insanity
NYPD
Hot Lunch
Liquid Swords
Paris +Kev
Little Los Marcostan

some of those teams are going to be upset if more than 2 of the above teams are in the same grouping and dont advance. when they will be better than others that will advance. its all going to be the luck of the draw.

.

tough call actually, I think Leisure Suit Larry Byrd could take third over Smile. Nick's pretty confident they're gonna win.. Im stoked on Silent majority, lots of teams to pay attention to. I also forgot the Beaver Boys I can see them at 6th or so

since some of us didn't make it out to the hockey game this winter, i hope someone will go over all the rules before this begins. I don't think I or others that might be there completly understand some of these new rules. or maybe will learn them as we play

Let's see some more rankings: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/espiv-rank

kev wrote:

Let's see some more rankings: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/espiv-rank

i get an 'access denied' when i try to view this page....kev?

Oh that was take 1.

Here's take 2: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/espi5ranking with the updated list or registered teams. rank away!

anybody looking for a third?...i won't know if I'm coming until Tuesday but if I can then I'd be looking to hop on a team...if you need references someone should vouch for me...

BEATEN HIM 3 TIMES, HE SUCKS!!!!

Kidding of course, JayFUCKOFFson is a solid player; physical, good passer, and has an awesome bike. Pick him up just so you can ride his bike.

he does have a nice bike, except for those tiny handlebars!

I heard this guy doesn't do drugs. What a loser. I hate him.

Expand your mind, pussy.

xxx

Ngaihon from Toronto also is looking to substitute. Definitely an A player, if off the radar. He's already booked his bus ticket, has housing, etc.

he should play with arlyn and eric if they don't have a third yet.

my biggest beef with the rules is that they were sprung on us a week before the tournament.
does any one else smell hay bales?

140x65

I wouldn't go all the way to hay bales, but there is potential for the rule set to be a difference maker, for sure. Specifically, I think that allowing the wrist shot is a pretty big surprise. I would have liked a little more notice, especially if NYC (or anyone for that matter) has been counting it in their regular pick-up. I absolutely will not try to say that it alone will decide a teams performance, but it is still a pretty significant change in playing style on both sides of the ball.

On the positive side, I'm way into playing to a set time instead of playing to a score in a tournament. That will have a very positive effect on the outcome of games, or if nothing else, how people feel about the outcome of their games.

I agree fully with Paul that, "If you play good, clean polo, you'll forget that the rules are any different than the game you've always played and loved." The threat of penalties should level out a lot of the ground between people that play polo too violently, like hockey, and the ones that tone the level of contact down to the levels tolerated in soccer or basketball. Overall, I'm excited to see how it all plays out, though a bit earlier warning would have been nice.

Gnomadic Insanity
Zach Blackburn NYC
Doug Dalrymple NYC
Paul Rauen NYC

Hate Puppy
Lisa Moffit East Van
Amanda Pease Tampa
Stu Su Sarasota

Ken and the Barbies
Ken Stanek NYC
Fiona Ryan NYC
Sara Wojcik NYC

Dans Ta Gueule Puceau
Kevin Walsh Toronto
Hugo Laquerbe Paris
Pierre Le Lama Paris

You Know Who We Are
Shane Murphy DC
Megan Murphy DC
David "Tink" Sachs DC

Silent Majority
Chris Roberts NYC
Alexis Mills Ottawa
Mark Capriotti Philly

Liquid Swords
Sean McCormick RVA
Nate Mumford NYC
Dave Currence NYC

Como esta
Pete Abram Columbia, MO
Chris Williams Columbia, MO
Charlie Hill

Flightless Albino Squish Bats
Jon Birdseye NYC
Jarrett "Chairman Gigante" Shamlian Boston
Bri "Pequeño" Nichols Boston

Your Favorite Foreign Movie
Eric Crandall Portland
Drew Kinney Portland
Capt. Jake Newborn MKE

Like 12 Year-Old Boys
Arlyn Bement DC
Eric Ransom DC
Johan Ramirez DC

Longshots
Triane Tambay Victoria, BC
Erin Phil Victoria, BC
TBD

The Saddlebags
Jasmine Jones Austin
Maureen Grady Austin
Tina Medley Austin

Slay and Destroy
Jason Stevenson Portland
Kayla Traisman Portland
Timothy Weeks Portland

Hot Lunch
Javier Garcia-Albera Boston
Tobi Howell Boston
Gustave Hoilland Boston

East Vanties
Shannon Frey Vancouver
Naomi Manin'tVeld Vancouver
Cara Fisher Vancouver

Philly
Brendan Graham Philly
Peter Dalkner Philly
Brendan Mchugh Philly

Beavers
Brian Dillman MKE
Eric Kremin MKE
Joe Burge Brown Deer, WI

crank-e-cooters
Valerie Marquis Sarasota/Fort Myers
Jessica Ahern Sarasota/Fort Myers
Nellie Colon Sarasota/Fort Myers

birds of paradise
Bernadette Watts MKE
Maija Eliashevsky Melbourbe, AU
Chandel Bodner NYC

The Killer Ladybugs
Cordelia Horsburgh Victoria, BC
Naomi Adams Victoria, BC
Valley Fotsch Victoria, BC

Johnny Fever
Johnny Crash Richmond, VA
Zack boom boom boom Richmond, VA
Ryan Saulsbury Richmond, VA

When Push Comes to Shove
Michael Schower DC
Joseph Fawls St Petersburg, FL
Jared Rader Sarasota, FL

The Moonshiners
Tiffany Morrow Lexington, KY
Jessi Connors Lexington, KY
Megan Stanton Lexington, KY

Machine Politics
Ben Schultz Chicago, IL
Joe Panizzo Chicago, IL
Matt Lane Chicago, IL

Everyone Else
Gena Perala Vancouver, BC
Quinn Shamm Syracuse, NY
Krista Carlson LA, Cal

Fetus Fajita
Tommy Green Little los marcostan
Adam Menace NYC
Johnny Midwest NYC

Team Smile
Leon Ettelson Seattle
Sebastien Michel-Hart Seattle
Dustin Riggs Seattle

Dan Savage and The Awesomes
Daniel Dilberger New Orleans, LA
Shelly Hicks Ottawa, Ont, Canada
Andrew Hayter Ottawa, Ont, Canada

Slaying with Hate
Lee Geer Dayton, OH
Lee S. Dayton, OH
Elton John Jon Dayton, OHIGHO
Spoken Three
Megan Mazzei Chicago, IL
Rita Verga Troy, NY
Shane NYC

Apologies
Marc Sich Paris
Louis David Najar Paris
Yorgo Tloupas Paris

Nancy Drew Crew
Kat McCarthy Minneapolis, MN
Jessica Horning Washington, DC
Ashley Bayer Blooomington, IN

Bourbonic plague
Nick McLean Lexington ky
Chris Simpson Lexington ky
Rich Lopez Lexington ky

Crimson Lobotomy
Cecily Upton Portland, OR
Meg Lee Portland, OR
Brian Bolles Chicago, IL

Swing Dick-bot
Nick Chenoweth Columbus
Peter Brown Columbus
David Frankhouser Columbus

Bad Boy Things
Rob Biddle Philadelphia, PA
Tommy Manson Philadelphia, PA
Cris Trout Philadelphia, PA

bruins
james lavenson Boston, MA
jon nania Boston, MA
jake jakenson Boston, MA

NYPD
CHOMBO NYC, RVA, MKE
BIG WERM
THE HEWITT

Leisure Suit Larry Byrd
Nick Vaughan RVA
Ian Dunwiddie RVA
Joshua Thomas RVA

Penis Between Us
Jonathan Lomax Pittsburgh, PA
Greg Russo Pittsburgh, PA
Greg Brunner Pittsburgh, PA

Boner Jamz '03
Samantha Luisi Deerfield Beach, Florida
Kelli Jurewicz Boca Raton, Florida
Christi-An Hansley Fort lauderdale, florida

killa bees
Mike young RVA
will brittle RVA
nathan Cunningham RVA

Jim Henson's Polo Babies
Sven Mattson Minneapolis, MN
Brian Chasm Washington, DC
Jesee French Seattle/Troy, NY

dirty south
Alix Nelson Boca raton FL
tyler ferguson Ft myers florida
Jason farthing west palm beach,florida

Killer B's
Amanda Mills Milwaukee, WI
Caitlin Hagness Milwaukee, WI
Naomi Szczesiul Indianopolis, IN

Rum Sodomy and the Lash
Abraham Oshel Chicago, IL
Greg Valentine Chicago, IL
Marco form earth NYC

Beer bacon and beef
Kiersten George Seattle
Kelly Beile Seattle
TBD

*who gives a shit*

so i am assuming after i show up with no matching t-shirts and you disqualify me that you will completely reemburse me for my travel and work loss expenses cause none of these rules were discussed before you made us regester. . also bikes aren't allowed in hockey or soccer. also johan is on the wrong team.

^ interwebbing while intoxicated

DC West!!

E z arlyn....i know for a fact these guys have been workin their ass off to put this thing together so much respect for that...now as far as the rules go...yes if i would of known about the wrist shot thing three months a go when i signed up i might actually have one by now... im kinda against the the whole air/wrist shot thing i just dont practice or promote it nor do i talk down on it...so i dont use this in my arrsenal of weapons .(.but i will start).and its not cuz i cant do it ..i just happen to enjoy seeing the ball played on the ground and around people rather than over people you have to think a little more ...to tell you the truth i dont like defending the receiver of the air ball only cuz i know he is only focused on hitting that ball out of mid air and i realllllly enjoy having teeth ...so maybe we can use this as a lesson for the future... can all the elected people get together set a deadline and come up with a set of standard polo rules ....i mean i dont care what they are ...shit if i need a monkey on my sholder than a monkey i will have...cuz the part that gets me is that i HAD to read the rules and they where long......and as far as i remember " There is no reading in polo"....
ps.
are wrist shots played on sundays at the pit?

The "wrist shot" is not allowed to go above the cross bar so these questions shouldn't come in to play. We're talking about short range shots,traveling in the air, above the ground and below the top tube of your bike.

ooooooooooooooooooooooh my bad..

i don't actually give a shit, i was just drunk and bored so i thought i would bitch about inane shit on a public forum. seriously, props to ny for being this organized

Drawing is done. Document updated, find it here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0An79vnJNQ88PdHZDWDhQOTdPSVNoMUZ...

this contains every team, every group, and the entire schedule for saturday, with games sunday to be determined based on those results. the matchups for sunday are in the document, they will be filled in after saturday's first round.

two more things:
first: again, people are either not comprehending or simply not bothering to read what wristers count. you can't whip it over everyone's head and into the net. if you do it won't count. this is very clearly explained in the rules. if you're still having problems wrapping your heads around this, read them again. get an adult to help you.

second: kicking the ball in with your wheel is not a goal. i don't care who thinks it looks cool or it looks 'difficult', this is not Radball. you can't score a goal by throwing it in the net with your hand, or kicking it in with your foot, and you can't score a goal by kicking it in with your wheel. there is a very clear distinction between a simple deflection and an attempt to knock the ball into the net by kicking it with your wheel. deflections count, kicking it in does NOT. end of story.

Thanks for getting the whole schedule for Saturday worked out ahead of time, helps me in my planning for the evening... even if the rules are "controversial" the planning seems to be top notch.

x2!! It's really nice to know who you will be playing and whose is on each team. Nice job so far, NYC! I can't wait for this!!

Midwest is best!!

So it looks like each team is guaranteed three games for the whole tournament?

Adam - I can see that we (apologies) are playing the Puceaux on saturday at 12. I guess this is just the result of random seeding, but it's a bit frustrating to come all over the world to NYC to end up playing a team we play against every week in Paris... Any chance of changing that? We are the only two overseas teams and it is just a bit of a downer to not have a chance to play an american team.
p.s. I love Kevin, Hugo and Pierre, and like playing against them, it's just that it seems pointless for us to all play together again.

Yorgo

Yorgo - for my part, i've declared among the organisers here my complete opposition to manupulating the randomly drawn groups, as it introduces bias and ruins the credibility of the organisation. that said, certain members of the club have the power to overrule me in this case (mainly because you asked personally), so i am leaving it up to them to decide whether to take your team and some randomly drawn other team and swap them. if they decide to do this, it will be posted here and you'll probably get a personal notification as well. i understand exactly what you're saying, and it makes sense to me, but from the standpoint of an organiser who wants to keep bias out of the groups, i have to vote against it. still, by the end of today something may change, depending on the decisions of other people for whom i have enough respect to entrust this decision. stay tuned...

yorgo
we played an american team in our second game when we came to rouen, france and took our first loss of the day in sudden death after leon opened my shin up down to the bone with no time out given. a career changing game for me... thems the brakes
ps i still love you leon

Portland United
www.eighthinch.com

looks planned and legit. can't wait to play

I (Kerry Nordstrom...Cincinnati, OH) am taking Rich Lopez's place on Bourbonic Plague if you care to update the listing.

but what will you do without the great wall of Mexico?!?

What! Tell Rich I'm pissed. I was looking forward to actually having time hang out this tournament.

Well I look forward to meeting you or meeting you again, Kerry.

Yeah! I hung out with you for a few minutes at the lock in this winter, Sven. Hope to catch up with you at the tourney when we're watching Team Smile play Team Zeus on the top of Mt. Olympus.

Pete-No idea where Rich has been of late, but I think he's more a wall of Tejas Rico than Mexico..

Remember to bring sunscreen everyone...NYCHBP cannot squeeze it into our budget and it will be hot and sunny!

x2 i totally got burnt today.

Rank the teams: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/espi5ranking

Most accurate wins a prize that most likely won't suck.

Not allowing Ball joints as a means of controlling the ball when it is jammed along the boards is a step backwards.

there's a difference between scooping the ball out with the end of your mallet when it's caught on the boards, and ball jointing the ball, and dragging it away from the boards. We're employing a diverse ref crew who understand it's their job to facilitate game play and not hamper the flow. I understand people reacting to something different, and I see and respect that side of the argument, but I assure you the polo will look like polo, and the refs will stay out of your way.

Paul NY wrote:

...but I assure you the polo will look like polo, and the refs will stay out of your way.

Prey to god the refs aren't out there shuffling along on a bmx or some shit!

x2 to no dude standing over a bmx bike. @ Paul: I don't doubt it will look like polo, and I know it won't affect the game too much.. but I just don't understand why you guys want to completely invent and enforce rules on a tourney of this scale to accommodate the playing styles of a couple people. I'm especially curious why you guys think allowing the "wrist shot" is a good idea

- Beaver Boys * Milwaukee Bike Polo Club -

man its not gonna be that bad. The wrist shot is really tough to execute in game play under pressure but its so cool when you do it right, I'd assume thats why its included. It takes a lot of skill to get off a decent wrist shot and get it past the goalie. I've gotten pretty good at them in practice 1 on 1 but its real difficult to do at speed unless everything falls into place when your on a breakaway with just you and the goalie. I really wouldn't sweat it too hard just hang tough if your last man back. I'lll bet we see less than 8 goals the entire tourney scored from wristers

yeah, i hear ya x3, the ref WILL NOT be on a bike, shuffiling along. We're recruiting refs from multiple cities, and I think you'll be pleased with their quality. and their lack of bmx.

Joe, truth be told, I don't love the wrist shot rule either. However, I think giving something a try in a regional tournament is a perfectly good setting. It gives players an opportunity to try something different when they're shooting on the goal. It pushes people to progress, and that's something you can do in a game setting. You personally are quite adept at using the end of your mallet to manipulate the ball. Your teammate Brian uses HDPE with a diameter greater than 2", and is skilled, fast, strong, from Minnesota, and a nature lover. Collectively, seize this opportunity to try something different. We'll give a demo at 9am on Saturday to review rules, and also discuss anything you want on Friday night. You can also email Zach about the rules, but you'll likely be met with endless, dry snark and that perhaps will make you even more upset. But seriously, you play excellent polo, and I expect you to put on quite a performance. We're really glad you and the Beavers are coming east again.

Erroneous. Erroneous on both accounts. I've put on my helpful, professional hat to be instructive and considerate to answer all of Sven's questions, and I'm prepared to keep up the act if anyone else wants to vent at me. I also agree that the amount of goals allowed by wrist shots is going to be very low, I wouldn't counsel any team to change tactics to accommodate it, unless for some reason their strategy doesn't include pressuring the ball handler. If any of you have never seen the obstruction rule in effect, the tell-tale signs are fast fluid good polo. This tournament is the best testing ground for progressive ideas, and you would all do our sport justice to look at the larger picture this weekend, and not just hold steadfast to a handful of guidelines from a bunch of messengers and ultimate frisbee dudebros, who clearly didn't come from an organized sport background. No one had even thought of exploiting offensive screens and such until a handful of years ago, and by then the older ruleset had taken root. We already effectively got rid of "circling out", thanks to (of all people) Corey Hilliard at the NACCC in Philadelphia, back when having a beer sponsor meant there was soooooo much PBR at that tournament. So yeah, open minds and whatnot. Man I drank alot of freakin pbr that weekend. It was everywhere. There was a dude with a pbr keg on a backpack and a tap in his hand too. He was like a little guardian angel that just wanted everyone to stay waaaasted.

Email me with questions about the rulebook.

Am I the only one that has emailed you to ask questions? Jeez. I don't know if I should feel ashamed or proud.

Feel imformed.

i have always said "your tourney, your rules" (and i know from playing BM that there'll probably be minimal point scored off the wrist shot) my main concern is that it allowing the wrist shot but also trying to regulate it could be problematic. the balls don't exactly have an altimeter in them.. how does one know for certain that a ball did or didn't barely go above the crossbar. There could potentially be a situation where one team and 100 people are saying that the shot was too high and the opposing team and 100 other people are saying it's a goal and then some poor ref will have to make a very difficult call that may determine the outcome of the tournament. you guys should REALLY experiment and allow anything off the tip to count: high/ low, shots, wrist shots, bj's, snow cone to slam dunk.. fuck it, what ever. That would be a real experiment and it would eliminate any gray areas.. then after the tourney we can all group hug and decide what we want to keep or get rid of.

i have some other questions about what exactly constitutes a wrist shot and when something is no longer a wrist shot and becomes something else but i'll ask y'all when i can see your beautiful faces (though i'm sure zach would aswer my questions very earnestly)

I am looking forward to single elim btw.. it's gonna make shit exciting and I'm looking forward to some upsets (knock on wood)

"Who said those milwaukee boys couldn't make it all the way to the big city. God bless those fuckin beavers"

- Beaver Boys * Milwaukee Bike Polo Club -

There will still be goal judges, and fortunately, 100cm is pretty close to eye level for someone lounging behind the goal. Maybe I have some awesome super power eyes but judging height on a ball soaring through the air for a couple milliseconds is pretty easy. On making a call, a good ref (and I think we'll have some great ones) will simply make the call as they see it. Ignoring jeering crowds comes with the territory of making calls, and players that choose to be inappropriate to refs should and will be penalized. There won't be debates, there will be one call and we'll move on. Also, this weekend is the worst time to ask me about something in the rulebook that effects the whole tournament. Email me. No group hug. Don't tell me what I should do.
-z

also its simple if the crossbar is at that height any ball that goes in the net that travels above the crossbar will be in a downward motion by that point. case solved. if a ball goes in the net on a downward motion its not a goal if it goes over the limited height it will not enter the net. hope that makes sense. maybe im wrong.

= Paul NY wrote:

I think giving something a try in a regional tournament is a perfectly good setting.

The roster for ESPI seems about as regional as last year's NAs. Perhaps even less so.

what difference does that make? it's still a regional tournament.
c'mon, son! you're not even coming.

the difference is that this shit is going to fun. and i'm excited Paul. here's to you Paul (your mother) and rest of you nyc cats for doing all this work. But there will nothing regional about nyc ever. its nyc the best city on the planet. just saying.

It makes a difference because it's a huge tourney, not a local experiment. I may have made different plans for the year if I had known the ESPI's would be a big national event. There are more that 48x3=144 polo players in the world who could be impacted by your decisions.

That said, I absolutely respect your choice of rules. Your event, your rules.

"Whatever you do, don't tell Joel this is gonna be a big one!"

Why are you guys keeping L33T S3Kr3T5 from Joel?

Joel, just direct all questions to Daniel at this point. he's doing a better job than I am with the replies.

ESPI 2011 RVA??? about damn time...

you know what would be great? if everyone who comes to ESPI brings their open minds and their best games and reserves opinions until AFTER the tournament, when we can evaluate how these rules really effected game play and make good, informed decisions about how to move forward. that is all.

x2

Sweet, so lets use these rules for the Ladies Army too.

us not using the rules for ladies army has nothing to do with the rules. it has to do with not having the manpower to enforce them accurately, which these rules require. we support these rules. and we support the growth of bike polo by testing new things and seeing what sticks. these rules have been initially tested at bench minor, where they received support. it is now time to try them on a larger scale with more teams from different regions. i'm actually really excited about the opportunity to hear from the ladies who play in both tournaments what differences they felt in game play due to different rules.

until then, there's really no point in discussing them other than to make sure you understand them.

edit: i am sure there are plenty of people who could enforce these rules for the ladies, but we did not prioritize finding them and training them before 10AM on friday. we have to do other things - like build the boards. that is more accurate reasoning for our decision. ok, i'm off to practice my wrist shot!

see you suckaz in the big apple.

xo

I don't get it Cec, you need refs for the uno card rules too. You can use me and other reffy ny'ers if you want to use the espi rulebook. I don't need any training, neither does paul.

Thanks, Zach. At this point, we're not going to change it. I've got some other folks lined up who are psyched to ref who have not yet used the ESPI rulebook, so I think we're just gonna keep it as is. See you TOMORROW!

"it's going to be hard as fuck to win this tournament"

and....
FOR THE REGISTRATION PARTY FRIDAY NIGHT:

please pay attention to this!!!

Registration is at Hot Bird [546 Clinton Ave. (at Atlantic), Clinton Hill]
8pm SHARP! upon registration you will be given a package and a wristband.
the package for each team will have various things in it:
event guide, tips, etc.
Your wristband will give you discounts on drinks at the bar, $1 off beer and well drinks
Hot Bird is a great bar with a huge outdoor seating area, but as it is a Friday night and it is a popular-ish place, it will fill up quickly, with us and regular patrons.
Thus, 8pm SHARP is no joke. Please show up early to ensure you get in, get some beer in you, and get out. [I mostly expect people to linger for a few hours and then go, since we all want to be in top form etc for the early morning on Saturday]
As we will all, or mostly all, be coming from the courts after the Ladies Army finals, we will all be on bikes. Typically you can bring your bike in to the courtyard, but as we are going to be 100-200 strong the venue has asked us NOT TO BRING THEM INSIDE.
We will have designated areas around the bar to do bike pile ups. Please listen to us when we tell you where you can and cannot lock up...this is imperative to our relationship with the owner of the bar and the neighbors he has to deal with.

so.
8pm SHARP! NO BIKES INSIDE THE LOT, LISTEN TO US WHEN WE TELL YOU WHERE TO LOCK UP.
THANK YOU.

see you friday!xx

rules 3.0
I made some minor tweaks, most notable is the delayed penalty which should simplify calling penalties. This was so refs aren't trying to get individual players attention on the fly to give them penalties, they just wait until the guilty team gets possession of the ball and stops play to administer penalties.

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1OkQr82gh85MbIj6Q8xXMD8yId20XHI...

I lack permission to see this doc, you gotta make it public or whatever.

i'm glad there will be this issue of the rules, it will take the preasure of me...
and whether i will or will not show up friday morning to build your fucDFSLKSGJKLGHJ;SDJKFSSAN XM,N Lking boards for you nyc...
DICKS!

Portland United
www.eighthinch.com

slayson wrote:

i'm glad there will be this issue of the rules, it will take the preasure of me...
and whether i will or will not show up friday morning to build your fucDFSLKSGJKLGHJ;SDJKFSSAN XM,N Lking boards for you nyc...
DICKS!

no. you have no choice. you will be there regardless of this rules crap. you are making the courts with us friday morning. be ready for it. [ps. love you and can't wait to see you again!]

=]

Rules crap? Please email me any questions about the rules.

Jas, you gotta build the boards, cause otherwise there will be no All Ladies polo! Then what will you do?

Seems funny to see you guys in Portland, then fly across the country to do the exact same thing a week later.

Hey all, we're down to the wire. If you haven't requested housing but still need it, here are some links to cheap hotels. Even the YMCAs in NYC aren't cheap.

The YMCA in Greenpoint
http://www.ymcanyc.org/greenpoint/guest-rooms/accommodations/

The Red Carpet Inn near Brooklyn Bridge
http://reservations.motels.com/hotel/propertydetails/252992/SUMMARY?isHRN=true&position=1&travelDetail=[20100625-2]2&cid=10042

Super 8 Park Slope(ish)
http://reservations.motels.com/hotel/propertydetails/333610/SUMMARY?isHRN=true&position=2&travelDetail=[20100625-2]2&cid=10042

Zip112 Hostel in Williamsburg
http://www.zip112.com/en/rates.html

Hostels in Brooklyn
http://www.hostelworld.com/hostels/New-York/Brooklyn?source=googleadword...

Hotel Toshi
http://www.hoteltoshi.com/apts.htm

Oh mai! I think Kat and I will be heading over here with our Thursday night host.

http://www.prospectpark.org/calendar/event/141424

Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:30 p.m.
with Nelida Tirado
The great Omara Portuondo, the female voice of the original Buena Vista Social Club, is a living legend of Cuban music. She now fronts the extraordinary Orquesta Buena Vista Social Club, which on recent tours has taken “the atmosphere up to a breathless level" (The Independent) in performances that “left audiences awe-struck” (Financial Times). The mesmerizing flamenco dancer Nelida Tirado, who moves “as if her body were a medium for some unearthly force," (NY Times) will bring the evening into sharp focus with a percussive opening set.

$3 suggested donation. At the Bandshell.

i had a dream last night fernando torres was on my team for this but we still got shut out against Smile in group play, but we didn't give a shit cause we were high as shit on some dope bud he'd brought from south africa, and i was all "shouldn't you be back there getting ready for Chile?", and he was all "pfttt...pass that shit".

true story.

best post in the thread.

x2

CHI-CHI-CHI
LE-LE-LE
VIVA CHILE!

BIKE HOCKEY!!!!!!!!! WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!! I is comming soon! I can has cheeseburger now?

Yo Dawg I heard you like redundancies so we got a PIN number for your PIN

/2

i'm getting this question a lot.... World Cup watching venues??

Yes, we'll be in a good location if you want to skip off an watch some World Cup over the weekend. The courts are located in between Williamsburg and Greenpoint (tons of bars) and there are plenty of places showing the games. NYers can point you to their favorite...
A sampler on the Williamsburg side of things...

Matchless (bar) Corner of Driggs/Manhattan Ave. right down the block from the courts.
Turkey's Nest Tavern 94 Bedford between N.11th and 12th (dive bar, to go margaritas)
Mugs 125 Bedford between N.10th/11th (close to McCarren)
Miss Favela 57 S 5th St at Wythe (under williamsburg bridge)
Mulhollands 312 Grand St. "Williamsburg's first unironic sports bar" Southside WB

tons more i'm sure.

Is Team Smile the Brazil of bike polo?

fuck team frown

OUCH! see you soon buddy

can't friggin wait eh!

turn that frown upside down

hey guys Im realy sorry but I can't make it, my roommate drank all my muscle milk so Im going through withdrawl. If someone could please sub for me I would really appreciate it

SQUAD UP!

also I have a severe case of priopism so as soon as my wee wee calls it quits with the diamond cutter I'll be able to play some ball

SQUAD UP!

After day one http://www.hardcourtbikepolo.com/?p=2269

Doug D
Brooklyn, New York
hardcourtbikepolo+gmail+com
hardcourtbikepolo.com

Doug D wrote:

After day one http://www.hardcourtbikepolo.com/?p=2269

Out of curiosity, how are people feeling about the frequency of games that end double digit to 0 score? Not shit talking, Just curious as this is one of my concerns with timed games.

I do think it's interesting that even with an unlimited time limit it seems that most games are getting played to, about, 5. This one is shit talking.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

you don't think this is in part due to not having Swiss rounds?

For anyone who can't read this shit, right click the picture, click "view image" and then you can zoom in, or just press ctrl and plus a lot.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fixcraft.net

Or just click where it says "see large"
rookie

Doug D
Brooklyn, New York
hardcourtbikepolo+gmail+com
hardcourtbikepolo.com

world champs taken out first game? hometown politics? bad ref? rules? , bias locals? or did they just suck? unbelievable! feedback appreciated I couldn't be there. damn.

I just want to respond to this first, with one message.

I am not involved.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

It was a really good game in my opinion (Beaver Boys vs. Team Smile). Single elimination makes tournaments more exciting because if you make one little mistake, you're out. It sucks though that Team Smile only got to play 4 games. I'm stoked to see them play more at NA's!

Midwest is best!!

....

good tourney

just in case people are wondering. We have Silent Majority and Beaver boys in the finals. Machine Politics and RVA playing for third right now.

thx hunter!

silent majority win this one (c roberts, mark c., TEXAS!) against the beaver boys. The first multi city super team. Lets get ride of regionalism.

Congratulations to Silent majority. I hope it was won with a scoop shot off the trick!

I like hearing that they were able to play together on a team even though they don't live in the same city. That shit is diffcult to pull off.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

hear hear jonny.

welcome to the squad princes pauly and dusty.

lamb's bread collie

Way to go midwesterners! Three teams in the top 8!

Can't wait til all the photos start flooding in tomorrow morning! And please tell me someone shot some video.

thank you new York! great tournament. thank you chris and mark. you guys were amazing. thank you hit squad and b.o.p.

bang bang!

mark? was that the 3rd guy on your team?

I want to thank NYC for their hard work putting this thing together. Especially Paul for being the only one with the balls to put someone into the mostly vacant penalty boxes.

Thank you Alexis.

Thank you Chris.

We will put names on the trophy this time.

ESPI 1 - Alexis, Angelo and Allan
ESPI 2 - Mark, Dave and Alex
ESPI 3 - Paul, Zach and Doug
ESPI 4 - Pieter, Rory and Sebastian
ESPI 5 - Alexis, Mark and Chris

please note it's Allen with an e

the peecocque wrote:

please note it's Allen with an e

yeah we need to get the spelling correct before we start etching metal.

Some fun games to watch. Two controversial rules (no offensive BJ & interference) were inconsistently enforced. Drank a bunch during the day. Good times. Had some 180 wrist shots, but not all day (mostly just Saturday morning).

Good tourney, good courts, good teams.

thanks NYC for keeping it steamy.

thanks Silent Majority for keeping the trophy on the east coast.

thanks Hot Lunch for shitting in people's mouths all day on sunday. No reasons, just results.

Great tournament NYC!! I had tons of fun even though my team got slaughtered. Peacockz- You made you're #1 fan extremely proud!! I hope to see and get everyone drunk on home brew in Madison in a few weeks.

p.s. Did anyone happen to find a mallet with an orange MKE shaft and a new Madison red head (black with a red stripe) with black hockey tape and a pink knob on the end? If so, please let me know. I'll be in NYC until Wednesday afternoon.

Midwest is best!!

for lack of a recap thread:

Likes:
-ZICO, best sponsorship ever, enjoyed by everybody, infinite coconut water, weird taste but I’m hooked
-LADIES FUCKIN ARMY, coupled with espi’s for a bigger audience and turnout
-15 min games, no score cap, feels more like a real sport, better assessment of which team is better
-Wide goals, bigger gaps = higher number of goals = more entertaining. Beautiful well made metal goals, strong mostly taught netting, padding on the corners.
-Refs were great, kept it smooth and clean for the most part
-Court one, liked that plastic shit covering the wood, also liked the size
-Well organized, mostly on time, finished up early Saturday while light was abundant. Mostly consistent announcement of who was on deck. Single elim day two also made for epic face offs
-Brooklyn bikes fixing shit for free
-RULES, didn’t think I’d like them going in but it cleaned up a lot of bullshit, even liked wrist shots. Don’t want to go as far as bench minor rules (with longer games, periods, rotations, etc) but I like the rules as they are. Thank you New York for making a better game, hope it sticks

Ehhhh:
-No ESPI V shirts to show off at next year’s espi
-Random team group assignment, I don’t think regional qualifiers are practical but some self rating mixed with what the organizers know about a team (aka midwests) could make for more equal matches/better first round matches/less 15-0 games. (On the plus side, this way did filter out the less qualified teams the first day.)
-No picks, while it opened up the game it kind of kept defense away from man to man d and made for too many double goalies.
-Time should consistently be called at 10, 5, 2.5, 1, 30s, 10s. Also I noticed some refs stopped the clock after each goal, some didn’t
-People who bitched the most about there being rules calling for their enforcement the loudest -- for legal contact

again, great tournament thanks for hosting it nyc!

Real sport? I didn't sign up for any real sports.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

well there you go

I asked about the wrist shots specifically in the rules thread but I'm curious about all the new rules and tweaks to old ones...for everyone who didn't attend ESPI V:

What did you like and dislike about the rules after actually playing games in which they were enforced?

The good:
so many good games
the courts
game scheduling

The bad:
the vuvuzelas.

The good:

Everything at the tournament...besides you.

The bad:

You.

the good: zion

the bad: babylon

the best: my teammates

and prince drama?

http://failblog.org/2010/06/28/epic-fail-photos-vuvuzela-fail/

Favorite moment: Putting slayson in the box twice in one game for slashing.
Least favorite: People screaming for an interference call in final when two players were shoulder to shoulder rolling directly away from the ball. I'm pretty sure they were both omniturners..

anybody who said shit about the rules and was not there can pray to god that they throw a tournament like this

We need to stop encouraging players to be considerate and polite, instead they need to play with a hardened-steel edge, and use discipline to stay out of the box. I think Courtesy is fine during pickup, when you want to be able to enjoy drinks with your other club members later in the day, but for tournaments, we need to make our sport more appealing to spectators. Otherwise it's just a bunch of bicycle enthusiasts jerking each other off.

In 5 years, if polo players are still our largest fan base, there's a big freakin problem.

relevant rules debate threads
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/general/2010/02/18/offensivedefensive-...
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/rules/2010/04/05/reffingpenalties-yell...
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/rules/2010/05/13/timed-games-vs-5-goal...
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/rules/2010/03/23/scoop-shots-legal-or-...

Tl;dr.
No chance I am wading threw all that shit.

I have a hard time reading this forum as it is with out peoples endless what if scenarios.

Glad you all had fun.

Wyatt,tim
EV OG

if people attended ESPI5 and they want to write up how they feel about those specific rules, there's a place for it, is all i'm saying. no need to rehash those threads here.

Polo Fotos from my point-n-shoot

http://www.flickr.com/photos/abelligerentsilence/sets/72157624376131260/

  • 4743712453_4c20170e14_z.jpg
  • sven.jpg
  • 4743776713_efe8420866_z.jpg

noticeably stoned

THank you NYC for two amazing tournaments. It deffinitely brouhgt up a lot of questions about the future of polo> its fun to see things change, but also scarey. This I know has been a battle we all face now that polo has become more organized, and only really in this last 2 years has it really blown up. My first reaction has always been to keep polo small because of my love and joy for playing and drinking in the park on sunday afternoons. But then theres tournaments, which we all love and would love even more if it wasnt run by a bunch of drunk hippies. The espi was very well organized. local sponsorship, leadership, and community took a strong role. It wasnt just a one man show like it usually is. I like the idea of using organized sports as something we can learn from, but this is also why sports at large scare me. of course everyone would love to play polo for a living, and not be chased out of the park by cops, but you need a lot of money for that. Money means corportations and abused power. The only way you can keep up with this power is by taking steroids. I never want to see polo doped up, like every corporate sport today. These days polo is growing so fast its hard to keep up with it. At this point polo will grow no matter what, but depending on the choices we make is what will decide the future of polo. Our choices now are more important than ever. We need to seriously ask ourselves, "in what dirrection do we want to take polo" Its more complex then one might think.

One thing I would like to see at the next espi is an A and B tounament. The first day will be the B tounament and the second will be an A. Seperate trophies and everything. And thanks to alexsus, I have a knew respect for wrist shots. I didnt go to bence minor or fallow up on it but it sounds like the espi was the possitive out come from that tournament. I think its great we are trying knew things. this last weekend gave me a knew understanding of time ha! The womens tounament was amazing, but as someone who doesnt like to be identified through gender, I feel that once polo is 50 50 men and women there will not be a need for it. I can even see this happening in the next couple years. Amazing! Special thanks to the womens army. What an empowering experience.

Today polo is bigger better stronger and faster than ever. You now see the most amazing games you have ever seen. People are starting to exercise drink "less" (i know i know, lesson learned) and are "all round" better palyers.
But I dont think we should just do this for polo but for a healthy life style. Polo is at its peek, and with the right choices we can keep it this way. I have always had a love hate relationship with polo because I love the sport, but living in portland it destroys me. Make polo healthy! For the love of polo! its always gunna be this way.

zero fucks given>>>>>>> unless you want to slay me

woah.

x2 -(stuff about corporations and money and doping)

slayla wrote:

The only way you can keep up with this power is by taking steroids.

We're already there. Ram Man's bro is definitely on steroids.

someone should seriously talk to him about that

zero fucks given>>>>>>> unless you want to slay me

I think advocating for A/B tournaments is a bad idea.. and for more reasons then I'm going to list.

but for one, one of the reasons I go to tournaments to play the best teams, and get better. that would suck for people who aren't "A" players or on "A" teams to not get that chance. keep it equal entry. use swiss rounds, everyone plays a variety of teams and ends in their level.

cherri I feel you. I use to feel the same way, but it wasnt until this last weekend were I felt what it was like to go far in a tournament, and that is when you learn the most. You dont learn in tournament when you get knocked out early on in the game. I have been to so many tournaments and I usely lose my first 2 games after round robin. there are so many people caming to tounaments these days and the level of play is so drasticly different that A and B tournament is were polo is heading anyway. That is why I suggest A and B tournaments being 2 days but the same weekend. That way the B player can watch the A players, and you can also learn a lot from just observing too.

zero fucks given>>>>>>> unless you want to slay me

People are going to learn faster by incrementally upping the difficulty of what you're doing by using their current skill set as a baseline... the theory behind practice (constructivism). Generally people don't learn as quickly when there's a huge disparity between their own skill level and the skill level of what they're attempting.

It exists in nearly every sport for a reason... CAT1/2/3/4/5 cycling, major/minor leagues for baseball and hockey, weight classes for boxing, golfing associations, automobile racing, high school sports by year... blah blah blah.

A team that got beat 18-2 would have learned more playing a team where they only got beat 6-2 or even 10-2.

Think about it... am I really learning anything if every time I jump into the ring with Mike Tyson I just get KO'd (or raped) in the first three seconds?

I learned a great deal from getting beat in that 18-1 game:

1. Need to put something in Drew's drink before our next game.
2. Need anger management classes.
3. NEED TO PLAY WAY MORE POLO!!

edit: forgot we only got one (own) goal in that game...

DC West!!

We're also talking about a different tournament format.

at espi, all games were pre-established before Saturday, timed, with top teams needing to collect the most points,
in this format, yeah I guess I can understand wanting two tournaments. and I can understand the ease this format makes for organizers.

but in every other tournament, where theres round robin/swiss style and games are arranged after each match according to point level/win-loss, there won't be as many 18-2 games. sure you might play one, learn from it, and then your lower score will give you an equal level team in the next round.

its crazy how much one regional tournament is influencing this game.

Most major tournaments DO NOT operate on swiss rounds. they have pre-determined round robin on saturaday. ESPI 5 was no different.

Personally i thought what that guy did at worlds (you know where he had the bottom 16 teams from Saturday relegated to a 'B' bracket single elimination tournament, and the top 32 advanced to the DOUBLE elimination 'A' bracket) was awesome.

and remember how each of the 48 teams played 7 games on saturday? oh right....haybales...i forgot.

of course if we had qualifiers most of this debate would be sorted out.

Mark Capriotti wrote:

of course if we had qualifiers most of this debate would be sorted out.

Sing it from the Rooftops brother!

coffee, whiskey, beer. repeat.

Mark Capriotti wrote:

and remember how each of the 48 teams played 7 games on saturday? oh right....haybales...i forgot.

there wasn't any downtime between games, everyone was eager to get off of those shitastic courts

Portland polo destroying players? das not good.

portland dosent desrtoy players the drinking does.

zero fucks given>>>>>>> unless you want to slay me

Thank you NYC bike polo for putting on such a sweet tourney.

Even though the outcome is far from what I'd wished and regardless of how much it hurt to see my boys pushed out of the way (don't care what you think or say they're the hottest ones out there by a long shot), this was balm on old wounds.

The organisation was flawless and these new rules (and refs) really made for much better polo. I truly hope they'll be widely adopted in the future.

Silent Majority

Autographing The Loop

Thanks NYC polo for a fun event. I had a blast in your city and I only have positive things to say.

Pickup in the Pit for 6+ hours with upwards of 60 players was a dream come true. Epic polo session!

Thanks to my teammates Jesse and Brian for hanging in there through thick and thin. We did pretty damn well having never played with each other before.

Thanks to Paul for putting Kat and I up at your house. We had a bed and a ceiling fan every night. You can't ask for more. Thanks to Paul again for handling receiving and shipping of our bikes.

It was a great experience to meet so many new poloists. I can't wait to see you all again at the North Americans. If anyone wants to come through Minneapolis, drop us a line. We'd be glad to host.

Thanks to all the women for the great tournament on Friday. The level of growth and play I witnessed on Friday was fantastic.

Thanks to all who competed. Watching teams progress throughout the weekend was a joy. Bike Polo is beautiful team sport that rivals any other spectator experience out there. Keep up the good work.

Learning what polo means to other cities is wonderful.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11263346@N06/sets/72157624389298556/

Did anyone pick up a camera on sunday????

Ride, bake, polo, repeat.

Thank you NYC for the time and effort you put into espiV and sticking to the rule set you chose, hardcourt organization at it's finiest! Wish I could have experienced it even though I don't agree with some of the rules you chose, it was your right as host.

P/M Hardcourt

sorry i have looked but i can't find the final results beyond the top 3 anywhere?

Yeah, someone must have a photo of the chalkboard with the top 16 bracket and all the scores...
1. Silent Majority
2. MKE Beaver Boys
3. CHI Machine Politics
4. RVA L.S.L.B

5-8
Lexington
DTGP
??
??

9-16
DC
Boston-2
Paris
???

In no particular order the top 8 were:
Gnomadic Insanity, Leisure Suit Larry Bird, DGTP, Machine Politics, Silent Majority, Bourbonic Plague, Beaver Boys and Hot Lunch.

http://twitter.com/leagueofpolo/status/17190265125

From the LOBP twitter:
Round of 8: DougPaulZack vs RVA, DTGP vs Machine Polotics, Silent Majority vs Bourbonic Plague, MKE Beavers vs Gus Tobi Jav

Dear nyc thanks for the great time, your commitment was commendable. However I must say I really hope that the pool system u inplemented is never used again. This weekend had to set the world record for uninteresting lopsided games ever. Part of the quality of the tournaments requires great games played and spectated long before dusk on Sunday. Your pools system failed to make this happen. Single elimination I am open to, say what u will about the rules. Its all about great games all the way till the end. Congrats champs and see you all soon

When you've got 48 teams, there's going to be some blow outs. I think the fact that each of those games was 15 min was the real problem. I reffed a bunch of games that were over 4 min into the match.
I think 12 min is more than enough, or perhaps a 10 goal mercy rule or something. i don't think it benefits anyone to limit who and who can't enter tournaments.. and right now there are a handful of teams that will wallop some of the beginner/less experienced/less skilled teams.

That said, your attitude kind of sucks, my man. Your team went all the way to the finals. Enjoy your success. I can tell you, it won't last forever. I appreciate all the constructive criticism, and there are a lot of things I would have done differently in retrospect, but in general I'd like to see more people just enjoy playing and roll with the punches a bit more than occupy themselves during a tournament with picking it apart. I don't know if you're fully aware of how that makes you come off, but it's kind of a drag to be totally honest.

Thank you NYC for all the hard work you all put into this last weekend. Im sure many of us noticed the time and money put into this wonderfully ran tournament. The time schedule was great and three courts was key. But the major fall back of the tourney was the lack of seeds in the weekend. that being said i have no more complaints or worries from the whole weekend. oh wait it was a little to hot but i think NYCPB could not fix that problem. Thank you all for making my trip to the east coast amazing and wonderful you all made that happen for me thank you.

just a few photos, but here they are:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46982219@N00/sets/72157624259522983/

see also the roosters thread " the league needs some fun trashing"
thanks again nyc please send some teams out our way later in the season
for BIKE POLO...

Portland United
www.eighthinch.com

i don't want my last post in this thread to be me being a jerk to BriBri. my bad. to all those who attended LA and ESPI and who put in the effort to travel and play, and give feedback, we thank you!

NY's next tournament will be even better, as we learned a lot. I'm thinking either an indoor armory tournament, or a camping in Brooklyn venture. it's like i already forgot all the work that took, and all i have are the good memories. Great to see everyone, even the ones that are still here!!!

Anyone leave stuff behind at the courts? I have a lost and found box in my van with a few things...if you're missing something let me know.
And thanks everyone for a great time last weekend...onwards and upwards!
Fi

I'm missing my mallet- orange MKE shaft and "new" Madison red head (black w/ a red stripe), black hockey tape with a pink knob at the end. If you happen to find it, please send it with whoever is going to Madison for NA's. Thanks Fiona!!

Midwest is best!!

A medium yellow ESPI V "I didn't come here to play bike hockey" T-shirt.

want

Oh and if anyone wants some LA II tees I'm gonna make some next week if enough people want them. Email me with the size you want and I'll invoice you on Paypal. They would look somethin' like this...

  • tee_la2.jpg

Thank you NYC. Great hospitality, courts, falafel and friends. Another treasured tourney weekend in the books. See everyone in Madison.

Thanks to all the Yanks for the great tournament! My team Hot Lunch was awarded 5th place at the prize-giving or whatever, but I suspect that may have just been Nate seeing me and doling out prizes at his discretion. Any word on if we actually "earned" 5th place, through some stats or attire-related points?

More importantly, I threw together a little collection of photos in a PDF (14 pages!). There's a ton of people in the photos, as expected, and if any of ya'll would like any photo from the set for personal use, shoot me an email at espi@gustavhoiland.com and I'll reply with whatever you so desire.

http://gustavhoiland.com/2010/07/01/espi-5-set/
http://gustavhoiland.com/2010/07/01/espi-5-set/
http://gustavhoiland.com/2010/07/01/espi-5-set/
http://gustavhoiland.com/2010/07/01/espi-5-set/
http://gustavhoiland.com/2010/07/01/espi-5-set/

Boston/MPLS/Elsewhere
currently running Photo Blog www.gustavHoiland.com
formerly of http://legitbikepolo.com

Great pictures, Gus.

x2, way to capture those great polo moments!

Your photos are the best representation of the tourney for those, including myself, that were unable to attend. They make me feel like I was there and part of the action!

is there a proper list with all the final positions?

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

this it what you're looking for http://www.hardcourtbikepolo.com/?p=2285

Doug D
Brooklyn, New York
hardcourtbikepolo+gmail+com
hardcourtbikepolo.com

press coverage for NYCHBP as well as ESPI V!!!
http://normaneinsteins.com/14/hardcourthardcore/

I hate it when journalists say that Polo isn't a spectator sport. It is, we're just not there yet...

coffee, whiskey, beer. repeat.

We seem to get a lot of spectators but no one ever really stops more than once. For the most part it's just bike nerds who come watch and after a bit they just end up playing.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

haha

Quote:

A boombox blares "Roxanne" by the Police. One bike poloist adapts the lyrics to taunt another compatriot nicknamed "Birdseye" on court.

"Birrrrrrrrds-eye! Why do you have to suck so much?"

hotbike wrote:

haha

Quote:

A boombox blares "Roxanne" by the Police. One bike poloist adapts the lyrics to taunt another compatriot nicknamed "Birdseye" on court.

"Birrrrrrrrds-eye! Why do you have to suck so much?"

ahahahahahaha that was me doing that! I've been quoted in the press! famous again...

---------------------------
"Thou Shalt put Thy Weed in it"
CH0MB0 3:16

Man, that was a great article. It was entertaining and the best insight from a journalist into the culture surrounding our little sport that I've read yet.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fixcraft.net

Totally agree. I really appreciated the actual game reporting in the back half of the article. More please!

I posted the goal flashes from the ESPI5 finals. Some quarter finals and semi finals and then final in this mess.

Read from the bottom up.

http://sites.google.com/site/espitwitter/