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EHBPC 2012 - Free for bidding now

Dear European Polo Community,

it was the summer of 2011 that we, the Munich polo community, announced our interest in hosting the Euros 2012. After the test run tournament "Polocatepetl" at the Bike Expo things looked good and people were getting excited about the Euros 2012 taking place in Munich. But after many weeks of negotiations with the Bike Expo about the courts we had to take a decision today. We're more than sad to announce that we have to withdraw our (until now unofficial) bid. Despite our efforts to come up with top-notch courts we couldn't work out a reasonable solution, both payable and playable. To our mind, courts are the most important criteria for a tournament, especially for such a big one like the Euros. We hope you can see our point and understand our decision.

We think we should let you know this so the community can now start the discussion about next year's Euros.
Soooo, if there are other cities interested in hosting the Euros 2012, let the Polo World know!

Thank you for your attention,
Angie

PS: Don't be too sad, you can still come and play on our riverside court next summer. We're thinking about having another Munich Open Session Week, just like 2010...

Too bad! Really enjoyed the Polocatepetl Tournament.

I read somewhere that Paris was considering hosting the Euros for 2012?

metriod wrote:

Too bad! Really enjoyed the Polocatepetl Tournament.

Thanks, we did, too.

metriod wrote:

I read somewhere that Paris was considering hosting the Euros for 2012?

I know. Hope they still want to do it.

SAD !! but good to know now!

Thanks for letting us know!

Greg now is your time to back that big mouth of yours.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Thx Alejandro, I think your last sentence will help A LOT everybody in the organisation of this bid.

.greg

Are you stepping up to the charge of organizing or you're just going to be a cry baby.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Did not read that before, but, I'm glad you come to Rouen, then I can tell you personnaly that your a dick instead of bitch talking on a forum.

.greg

Shit. I was really looking forward to this one!

Completamente de acuerdo contigo.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

I know guys, don't rub it in...
:(

how about Hannover?!

-only 2, but perfect, courts
-games on 4 days
-max 48 teams

everybody champing at the courts. easy.

(maybe one should ask them before getting too excited)

I think that'd be great. Hanging out 4 Days right by the courts.

2 courts is not enough moe. I would say 3 minimum, 4 ideal.

alex figueira wrote:

2 courts is not enough moe. I would say 3 minimum, 4 ideal.

with max. 48 teams and games from thursday to sunday it is!

as Angie says, the courts are the most important. unfortunantely european communities cant provide good ready-made courts yet. also, we seldomly find big areas to put up courts (like public tenniscourts as in the US) I think we have to arange important tournaments aournd good courts, even if that means to have only 2 courts. the location is just perfect. If you split the groups intelligently, every team gets two days of groupgames (10 games/team) and you take the best 20 for double-elim on sunday!

40-48 teams is plenty enough, 3 courts as well. No need to make this harder to host.

I think Hannover could be a good idea, maybe a bit hard for everyone to attend on 4 days but doable

I agree. look at NAHBPC 2011 in Calgary. Only 2 courts, but they were great (if a bit too big for some). This tournament shouldn't be about the most polo, it should be about the best polo, and that requires the best courts. Only problem is that it will create more drama at the qualifying level.

kev wrote:

This tournament shouldn't be about the most polo, it should be about the best polo, and that requires the best courts.

exactly!

kev wrote:

Only problem is that it will create more drama at the qualifying level.

a clear annual procedure will let no space for lots of discussion

Mo, it'd be good to see a proposal for Hannover 2012 from you? Are you game?

I'd be up for having even more than 4 days of polo/camping/fun for the Euros next year? Sometimes everything feels a little stressful and rushed with additional courts and teams, so it might be nice to try a slightly different approach?

Sad.
ri-ver-side tu-tu-tum!!

what about the communities that allready hosted great tournaments like Berlin, London etc?

signature yourself!

Berlin should find another location in my opinion, only one court was really good, the three other one was really hard to play on and really diferents one from each other.

For me two good courts is enough for 48 teams on 3 or 4 days.

quality of courts are truly importants, specially the height of the boards, two maybe is ok, but if we dont have the third for practice is too sad
we have a perfect two courts place in Padova, but we are not ready for doing a good job for 2012.
Italians are in discussion to put our candidature to host euros in 2013.
maybe close to the beach.. Venice is one of a candidate..
Hannover 2012 can be a good bid

So, whats the state of affairs?

Any "behind the curtain" talks going on?

Euros 2013 by the beach FTW!

Well, to be honest, the 2 courts of Hannover, we played the German Masters on in 2011, are perfect. Great concrete, high walls, like icehockey and a clubhouse, with bar, toilett and places to sit. camping arround is perfect and possible. So let´s talk to them...

2 courts, 4 days? That would be great!

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Mo, Philip and I were talking about Hannover this weekend in London. Essentially if the Euro association (or some volunteers) look after sourcing sponsors, team qualification, paperwork, rules and scheduling, then Hannover will be able to provide the camping space, courts and spend some of the (sourced) funds on anything else they may need.

I think a camping polo-retreat style Euros would be awesome and the hardest part (the courts) would be sorted already..?

The courts are the most important thing. 2 good courts, decent size, decent surface & decent boards is enough, as long as the organisers don't try to get too many teams into the time.

Hannover would be awesome

2 courts, 4 days, and 48ish teams would be a nice recipe for the euros

I'm not directly concerned, but i think if you ask anyone who attended NAHBPC 2011 in Calgary, 3 days is plenty enough polo for 48 teams on two courts. Everyone got 5 games Friday/Saturday. Adding the 4th day will make it harder for some people because of work or other commitments...

+1

Wildcard first day
Two days of qualification
Final day elimintation

4 days total, 3 days for most?

+1

(Does Hannover already stand up whith some dates?)

Nope, they need to have a think about whether they actually want to host the Euros first... I think Philip is going to talk with everyone.

Depends on how you manage your days, but calgary was really really really too long for not enough games, the full swiss round day was boring.
I think you can make something good with 2 courts and 3 days, but not with full swiss round, some 2hours or more waiting during games is not serious.

uolmo .Clement. wrote:

Depends on how you manage your days, but calgary was really really really too long for not enough games, the full swiss round day was boring.
I think you can make something good with 2 courts and 3 days, but not with full swiss round, some 2hours or more waiting during games is not serious.

It's a conversation for another place, but I agree that Swiss is a pain, both for players and refs. I like Barcelona, cos I played & reffed in mornings only, and then could goof off getting drunk in the afternoons... :-)

yea, i agree with bill on this one, barcalona was great for having your reffing/playing etc grouped into sections, and each group seemed pretty fair. waiting around for an entire day with a game every 2-3 hours is just bullshit. consolidate those groups and it'll make people more happy. one problem with polo tournaments is being shackled to the court waiting for hours on end, meaning you can't actually see the city you've travelled to.

In Calgary, Friday (day 1) was divided into two groups, so you played Morning or afternoon. Saturday there were some waits, which were sometimes as long as two hours (but not 3). If this was a problem, it was because it was in suburban calgary, which is is like a black hole, so there wasn't much you could do during that 1.5 hour wait. (That said, if i'm travelling across the continent for polo, i'm there to play/see polo for the weekend. Sight-seeing can happen before or after the tournament...). But it was nice in Seattle for WHBPC, where you could go swimming between games....

For the top teams and for spectators, swiss rounds is better because many of the games on Saturday feature the top 10 teams going up against each other, including often some previews of the podium games, which improves the quality of the games Sunday afternoon.

i thinking of mananging something between SR and group games. make a macro SR on micro group games. You play in a random group the first day, round robin, then, the second day, you play in a round with a more accurate level, same as the third day, every day a new group, always round robin.

Even if it was suburb' in calgary, and cool to swim in seattle, waiting 2 hours for a game is really too long, you can't stay in a good shape with this kind of rythm.

(i miss Toronto and the whole crew!)

i miss the days when your english really sucked

kev wrote:

i miss the days when your english really sucked

+1

.greg

Hi guys, it's been a while. Paris Bike Polo is now working on making the EHBPC 2012 happen in Paris.
It's now official, we are part of the Bid for the organisation of the 2012 EHBPC !!!!

The place we chose is a mutli-sport complex (stadium?) called le TEP Pailleron wich should allow us to built minimum 3 courts (20x40) and we'll problably have an additional inside ice skating rink court with 300 seat bleechers (gradins).

We already have an option on the 19-20 & 21st of July. (Thusrday-Friday & Saturday). The idea about fiinishing that Saturday comes from our firends from Geneva and was confirmed this WE in London. As you know, When you finish a tournament you want to share some good times with your polo buddies. But most of the time you have to leave. But if we finish on saturday, we can make a big party on Saturday NIght. (May be in the ice rink!)

For those who know about the Tout de France. The EHBPC finals will take place, the day before the arrival of the Tour (July 22nd). Which means a big number of spectators, and, for those who want, they can go see the spectacular arrival on the Champs Elysées !!!

We'll soon come back to you, probably next week, to give you more details : The format, number of teams, slots by country and everything we planned for this tournament if it happens in Paris.

Schuss

The Paris Bike Polo Team.

  • 148590_173526972673009_131176320241408_578650_3796156_n.jpg

.greg

Nice one Greg (and Paris) for stepping up!

Sounds brilliant.

YES

Finally! You see, Greg, you were too pessimistic.. ;)
Thanks Paris, sounds good (except the dates for those who will qualify for worlds, if they'll happen less than one month later in Geneva, it's really short for booking, etc), anyway, can't wait for more details!
More generally, good to have some competition here too and to choose between different propositions..if Hannover will really bid after this one, wait and see.

super méga top

Van Barben wrote:

The EHBPC finals will take place, the day before the arrival of the Tour (July 22nd). Which means a big number of spectators, and, for those who want, they can go see the spectacular arrival on the Champs Elysées !!!

Sounds great in principle, but I imagine that's not going to be the cheapest weekend to travel to Paris? Just saying, for the same reason we want to avoid the Olympics for the LO.

But i imagine you have reasons for doing it that weekend, so good luck with that, and see you there.

John H wrote:
Van Barben wrote:

The EHBPC finals will take place, the day before the arrival of the Tour (July 22nd). Which means a big number of spectators, and, for those who want, they can go see the spectacular arrival on the Champs Elysées !!!

Sounds great in principle, but I imagine that's not going to be the cheapest weekend to travel to Paris? Just saying, for the same reason we want to avoid the Olympics for the LO.

But i imagine you have reasons for doing it that weekend, so good luck with that, and see you there.

John, the Tour De France is kind of a minor event in terms of crowds in Paris. I doubt that a huge number of people would fly or take the train to see the final sprints. The spectators are usually the tourists already present in Paris, mixed with a few hardcore fans.

Yorgo

i agree, with the exception of the three or four years where there were fucking Texas flags flying everywhere.

le car wrote:

John, the Tour De France is kind of a minor event in terms of crowds in Paris. I doubt that a huge number of people would fly or take the train to see the final sprints. The spectators are usually the tourists already present in Paris, mixed with a few hardcore fans.

Ok, didn't know that. No problem then.

About time!

Location looks great.
Any idea on the format of the tourney? How many teams, etc.....

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Van Barben wrote:

We'll soon come back to you, probably next week, to give you more details : The format, number of teams, slots by country and everything we planned for this tournament if it happens in Paris.

And so..?

The end of July?! oh merda!
;-)

Nice for Paris!

The result is random the performance No

sounds great. now to just wait and see how the spots are distributed. exciting times.

Paris bid looks Awesome.

^this^

_______________________________________________________________
El Vaquilla hubiese jugado Bike Polo.

yay for paris!

Ok Guys, sorry about the lack of communication those last days.

First thing, is do we need to make a vote between Hannover and Paris to be fixed.

Concerning the Paris situation we already gave you our dates 19-20 & 21st of July, and our spot (chek my previous post).

Now concerning the slots, we want to organise a tournament with 40 to 48 teams, not sure yet about the numbers of teams. We want those Euros to be a competitive tournament, so we will contact players in the different scenes to have a better idea about how compatitive is a scene.

We already know who to contact in :

UK
Germany
Spain
Switerland
Italy
Beneligue
Ireland

If your country is not on this list, can you please contact me via lobp or FB.

There will be a 20 teams wildcard tournament. It will be in Rouen (probably the best court in Europe), 1h by train to Paris the days before the Euros. The 3 first teams from the wildcard tournament will be qualified for the Euros.

We will give slots for the wild card tournament by scene.

So basicaly, in 2 weeks we will announce for each scene the number of slots you got for the Euros and for the wildcards, then it'll be up to you to choose the teams qualified.

.greg

Awesome. Thanks Greg

Greg! Good stuff... if you want the Euro database of polo players, just shout. (Clement is formulating a list too so may help you with contacting everyone.)

Some folks don't check LOBP, etc.

jon [at] lhbpa [dot] org

Ok, good to know.

.greg

Bigup gregoui

Merci Greg.
Waiting for Hannover now.

Ok, still waiting for an answer from Hannover.

In case of Euro's in Paris, the only countries wich could received spots by now are :

UK
Germany
Spain
Switerland
Italy
Beneligue
Ireland
Poland
Austria

So if you know anyone from any community thinking about playing at the Euros and not regularily checking this thread let him/her knows.

.greg

No France? Hah.

I'll go spam the other countries contacts with an email now (directing them here).... the majority don't check LOBP very often.

Hungary?
How else am I going to put to use my newfound boxing skills :D?
DODI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Mr.Carrillo wrote:

How else am I going to put to use my newfound boxing skills :D?

ha!

easy boys, easy! :) Dodi will be there. And we also. And tonight we'll write here.

The Bisons

Hi Greg,

I am writing to you on the behalf of the Polish Bike Polo Community.
We are very happy about the Euros being held in Paris! :) Great city and the courts are looking swell.

For contact with the Polish side you can contact me or Agata. I persume you guys know her. :)
This is the email to contact: info@polishbikepolo.pl and my name is Sabrina Staniewska
Last year we recieved 1 spot. This year we would like to ask for two spots if possible. I know that the places are limited but i would like to say that we are interested in showing our skills and are ready to fight in the game of Bike Polo at the euros :)

cheers.
Sabicat.

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

metriod |at| gmx |dot| at for Austria/Vienna.

We should get the list with reps for europe sorted. AFAIK this is the third time contact for each city/country are asked for and means unnecessary effort and time delay getting alle the contacts.

Austria would welcome more then one slot as well. Currently polo is beeing played in 4 cities and 3-4 teams would be interested in playing at the Euros.

Cheers,

I just sent our contacts to Greg.
So Czech republic will be happy to be part of EHBPC this year in any form (qualification/main tournament).

See you
Martin

twice. sry.

The Bisons

Hi Greg,

we'd like to join euro 2012. from Hungary we would like to get 2 slots , if possible.

cheers,

wackor

and the contact: wackor74 at gmail dot com

The Bisons

thanks for the info.

Greg, is there any chance of a larger wild card tournament? Two days in Rouen? Two courts somewhere else? A wild card tournament in both Paris and Rouen? Less games for more teams, knock-out style?

20 teams seems a little low (if bike polo in Europe has continued to grow since last year)? In the past no-one has had to register/fight to be included in wild card tournaments?

jono, i'd be more concerned with the amount of places available to wildcard teams. it's currently 20 with 3 going through. if you make it 32 teams or so for the wildcard, and still only have the top three going through, i don't think it'll be better. 32 team wilcard and 6 slots seems to be proportionally better.

The idea of wild card tournaments is to give every team a route to the finals without needing to qualify (some teams may not be able to attend their regional qualifier for example).

Usually more spots open up for wild card tournaments as some of the qualified teams have to drop out/can't attend, so I wouldn't worry too much about that...

Agreed, that 3 spots isn't a lot to fight for, but the main thing for me is that everyone has a chance to prove their worth/reach the final.

JonoMarshall wrote:

Agreed, that 3 spots isn't a lot to fight for, but the main thing for me is that everyone has a chance to prove their worth/reach the final.

IMO thats what the regional qualifiers are for?

Agreed, some people find it difficult to attend the regional qualifiers though.

Many middle-ability teams will have their heart set on attending the Euros/playing the wild card no matter what. Capping the wild card is likely to turn away lots of teams... this also means the main event will have less spectators (and friends) in attendance, etc.

So at this point the list is :

France
UK
Germany
Spain
Switerland
Italy
Beneligue
Ireland
Poland
Austria
Hugary
Czech republic

From what I know mainly Danemark is missing, right ?

Concerning the wildcard, it's almost impossible to make it in Paris, for a reason that you guys will understand easily. People involved in the organisation will have to take some days off to prepare this. So organising a proper wildcard tournament means asking those people to take 2 more days off, wich is a lot. Jono I got your point and we'll think about it with the guys, but at the moment we stay on 1 tournament for 20 teams.

I know the scene is growing more and more, we think it's now important to consider Nationals championship as a major event and Euros and Worlds as bonus for the teams who deserve it.

.greg

Current Euro polo countries:
Austria
Belgium
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
France
Germany
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine
United Kingdom

Van Barben wrote:

From what I know mainly Danemark is missing, right ?

About Denmark and other scandinavian countries, here's Jacob's comment:
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/organizing-polo/2011/01/07/european-po...

Thx Sacha, I missed that one.

.greg

greece plays I think

Yorgo

Hello everybody,

Sorry that it took me so long to answer but I'm pretty busy at the moment.
Concerning the Euros:
I can't really speak for all the players in Hannover but since I see a pretty advanced prep for the Euros by the Paris community I would say go for it.
It is true, we have 2 very prefessional courts here and place to camp and (at least in the summer months) nice weather but the number of players that are willing to put a lot of work into organizing such a big event is pretty small. Apart from that the club we (and the courts) are part of is ... complicated (fuckin German correctness, fuck it!).
So thank you, Paris, for organizing it. There might be an international tourney in Hannover as well this year or again the German championships, but not the Euros.

greets, Flo

Hannover polo retreat instead? More laid back vibe, perfect first tournament?

Your courts are the stuff of legend already...

define: "polo retreat" (never been to one)

http://leagueofbikepolo.com/polo-retreat

(Thanks for the clear answer, Flo, and let's hope for a polo retreat in Hannover this year, not only for german championship..)

Ok, guys, thanks to the community for trusting in Paris Bike Polo, to make it.

We'll give you, some infos soon, the first informations should be the repartition of the spots.

.greg

Concerning the dates, we already prebooked the place at the dates we gave you previously but we are waiting to receive the letter from the city to make it official. Should be official very soon.

Concerning the Slots, we're waiting for the last answers to our survey to announce it, it'll be this week. I can already tell you, regarding to what we already have. It'll be a 48 teams tournament, and we'll ask some coutries to organise grouped qualifying tournaments.

.greg

(just to follow)

The Bisons;

Hey, slots assingment will be announce this week.

Just for you to know that at the moment 15 peoples are involved in this projet in Paris. We have 5 departements and a guys is leading each of this departement.

Marc, is leading, Global organisation, relationship with the partners (Public and Compagnies) & communication.

Hugo is leading logistics (courts, goals, players area, etc...)

Greg is leading, rules and format (tournament format, slot repatitions, wild card) & communcation with the community.

Jean François & Quentin are responsible for the budget management.

We will have an other departement for "Good Tips" it'll be in charge of finding some discount to book for place to sleep and eat. Concerning the hosting, Parisian people are living in small flats so we won't be able to host peoples, so it'll be up to you to book a place to sleep.

.greg

Nice one Greg, you might be able to get a reduced rate at larger hostels (or a hostel chain) if you let them know you've got 150-odd people ready to book? (Often they just supply you with a promo code/word that you can pass on to people, etc.)

JonoMarshall wrote:

Nice one Greg, you might be able to get a reduced rate at larger hostels (or a hostel chain) if you let them know you've got 150-odd people ready to book? (Often they just supply you with a promo code/word that you can pass on to people, etc.)

Yes it's the idea, and also finding a place where you can leave you bike safely.

.greg

So this is a very important message I guess.

Here is the slots distribution for the EHBPC 2012.

How did we choose it. We sent a survey to 20 people in Europe from the different scenes. I was asking people to tell us, the number of teams from their country that would qualify for the TOP 32 and TOP 16. We ask them to give the name and line up for each of those teams. Then we checked at the results of the last tournaments this season and main events last years as WHBPC, EHBPC, and GM2.

Regarding to the result of the survey we will have 51 teams in the TOP 32 and 20 in the TOP 16 this year, France not include. ;o)

I tell you that beacause everybody is, regarding to this, overevaluating the level of his scene mainly for emotional and friendly reason. So don't be surprised if you have less spots than expected we were limited to 48 slots for the Euros and 20 slots for the wildcard tournament.

France : 8 (3 slots in the wildcard tournament)
UK + Ireland : 7 (3)
Germany : 7 (3)
Switzerland : 6 (2)
Spain + Portugal : 5 (2)
Italy : 5 (2)
Beneligue : 3 (1)
Poland/Austria/Croatia/Hungary/Czech Rep : 3 (3)
Wild Card : 3

For Organising, because people working on it want to be part of it => Paris : 1 (Rouen 1)

.greg

Thanks a lot, Greg, for all the work and the information, big hup to Paris!

From my/our point of view, I think you did a pretty good job and I understand fully your argumentation.

If you allow a critic and protest, I just wonder why Benel(ux/ligue) should only get 1 slot for the wild card tournament, all others countries/countries groups got at least two. We in Benelux are in fact two countries, Belgium and Netherlands, which are comprising more than seven playing cities and more than a dozen regular teams, so three direct spots is quite fair, in regard to the limitation to 48 slots and our actual level, but only one for WC tourney assurently not.
IMHO, It would be "fairer" I think to take one slot from PACHC, if you give them already three direct spots (sorry, guys, nothing against you), and to allow us one slot more, like Spain/Portugal (two countries also) or Italy.

Hum, I got your point Sacha.

What we noticed, was that in Benelux 3 teams are really dominated the scene and then the other teams are far from this level.

We gave 3 spots for the wildcard to PACHC, because they're new countries, we thought that exept couple of teams, the other teams were not ready to join the EHBPC, but it might be intressing for them to be part of it, to watch, to learn. That is why they got 3 slots for the wildcard.

.greg

Nice one Greg!
Well done!

Van Barben wrote:

So this is a very important message I guess.

Here is the slots distribution for the EHBPC 2012.

How did we choose it. We sent a survey to 20 people in Europe from the different scenes. I was asking people to tell us, the number of teams from their country that would qualify for the TOP 32 and TOP 16. We ask them to give the name and line up for each of those teams. Then we checked at the results of the last tournaments this season and main events last years as WHBPC, EHBPC, and GM2.

Regarding to the result of the survey we will have 51 teams in the TOP 32 and 20 in the TOP 16 this year, France not include. ;o)

I tell you that beacause everybody is, regarding to this, overevaluating the level of his scene mainly for emotional and friendly reason. So don't be surprised if you have less spots than expected we were limited to 48 slots for the Euros and 20 slots for the wildcard tournament.

France : 8 (3 slots in the wildcard tournament)
UK + Ireland : 7 (3)
Germany : 7 (3)
Switzerland : 6 (2)
Spain + Portugal : 5 (2)
Italy : 5 (2)
Beneligue : 3 (1)
Poland/Austria/Croatia/Hungary/Czech Rep : 3 (3)
Wild Card : 3

For Organising, because people working on it want to be part of it => Paris : 1 (Rouen 1)

Van Barben wrote:

How did we choose it. We sent a survey to 20 people in Europe from the different scenes. I was asking people to tell us, the number of teams from their country that would qualify for the TOP 32 and TOP 16. We ask them to give the name and line up for each of those teams. Then we checked at the results of the last tournaments this season and main events last years as WHBPC, EHBPC, and GM2.

I guess the methodology you chose is a bit flawed. with the polo community growing at such a brisk pace, it would be wiser to award the slots based on the total number of players in a given country.

in the system based on merit, the newcomers (esp. eastern/central european) will always be at a disadvantage. the thing is the the teams from the countries new to the sport could not have possibly placed at one of the premier tournaments you mentioned. a) nearly all the events award the slots using the same achievement-based methods (yeah, right: there was a single Polish player on the Benelux team at GM2 ;) ), b) it's quite an expense to travel to such a competition en masse.

I know it's hard to keep everyone happy AND award slots to a bunch of the unknown teams of roughly unknown level, but the current system kinda sweeps the newcomers under the carpet.

I think it's worth to keep the scene open for a bit longer to establish a fair regional system similar to they use in NAH. :-)

I know the methodology is not perfect, but these guys are working their asses off trying to get an event consisting of the very best polo in Europe.
Furthermore, the euros aren't the only tournament of the year. If people are really serious about playing the big events, then they should perhaps consider attending other tournaments as well. At least so that the community gets to know you..
I guess you should prove yourself before the euros....
(general you, not you personally).

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Van Barben wrote:

I tell you that beacause everybody is, regarding to this, overevaluating the level of his scene mainly for emotional and friendly reason.

Right, everybody has overestimated their local scene based on emotion and friendship -- except Paris. You guys have information, intellect and reason that the rest of us do not have, so you can really tell who the best teams are, and of course accurately estimate the ability of your own local scene.

#bullshit

MALICE for the people.

It'll be really interesting to see how they make a qualifier tournament between poland and company...

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

There will be 1 or 2 qualifying tournaments, If 2 tournaments we'll be in charge for an other slot distribution. It was impossible to give slots to those country automaticaly, that was not fair compare to the countries who will have to fight for.

.greg

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think new countries should get an automatic pass, specially when you only have 48 spots.....

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

No worries, I just answered you cause I thought some people might be interested why we made this choice.

Just to conclude, the idea was not comparating the best teams of each country, the idea is most to say the 8th french team is more or less as good as the UK's and German's 7th, the Swiss 6th, Spanish and Italian 5th, benelux 3rd etc...

.greg

Good job Paris Bike Polo!

CALL ME DADDY

Super Greg and PBP.
we want Paris polo mansion !!
rent a big flat no?

As Soon as we definitely confirm the date a bunch of people will be in charge of finding you some cool place to book guys.

.greg

Thanks GREG.
so we ended up in this group:
Poland/Austria/Croatia/Hungary/Czech Rep : 3 (3)

So...
I would like to propose a tournament between countries from our group to get the best 3 teams for the main tournament and wildcard chosen (most fair way, i think)
so...
WE (poland) WOULD LIKE TO HOST IT!!!
What we offer:
2 day tournament,
perfect court 34m x 16m or two (I will upload some photos later because i am at work now),
housing (not sure if yet free but if to be payed it would be extremely cheap).
The month for it to happen we would like to suggest MAY (there are some national free days of work).

What do you guys think?

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

I think beginning of june is better, than may. Maybe ok the may, but important the tournament should be in a weekend. Lot of player are in the school at that time. My opinion is the tournament better in Wien. It's in more central, than Warsava. If they want to organise this qualifier. And maybe better open a new topic for this conversation.

The Bisons

Poland is quite close to most of our countries, sounds like a good plan!

And by the way, chucking 5 countries, so far spread out, into one bag and giving 3 spots overall, sucks.
Talk about clicky.

.

The Bisons

Six spots for Switzerland? Surely you jest.

MALICE for the people.

I'll comment the Poland and co. situation with a question: 3 spots for over 70 million people spread around half of Europe???

Are you kidding me?
So we were already in our way to organize a Portuguese Qualifier tournament,
and you guys come up with this terrible idea of joining Countries?

I can't even start by saying how pissed i am by that.
So now we're gonna have to move to another country to dispute the spots?
How's that fair when you have so many countries that don't have this disadvantage?
How fun would it for the French to go and dispute their spots against Swiss teams in Switzerland?

This all thing is a big mess and it sucks, i must say...

Why can't you just give us a slot for the tournament and a slot for the pick-ups...?

Really pissed right now, so sorry if i'm not being very diplomatic...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Ok only thing I wanna say is that we should change the name from european bike polo championship to more established countries tournament,coz how you can call something european if each country doesn't even has a spot to be part of it... and by the way ireland and england are to separate countries,we can't just drive to each others,wee have to spend shit loads of money for plain or spend day in train and ferry,but fuck that,england has 7 spots + ireland,and france has 8 on their own + 2 for organizing,fair play you guys for all the work but I don't remember something like that last year in Barcelona... are we call this favouritism for swiss,I can name 3 teams that have good results last year,same italy,nothing against you guys,but I was sure you guys are talking about best polo and you should check the results from last year and see who deserve a spot,we make good last year,better then people expected and finish higher then many teams from those countries :-) really not happy from that spot allocations,sorry ....have a good day paka pa

And by the way whats happened with sweden,ukraine and norway....

So, am I correct in understanding that the wild card tourney will take place a week before the Euros and in a different city (Rouen)? How the fuck is that gonna work for folks coming in from out of town? WTF?

Is there any reason why the big countries (france, germany, spain) have 7 or 8 slots/teams (or more) and the little ones have no one?
Hey, we are in the european union and all staats have one vote ;-) (or so?)

Less for the big! I mean not one slot for the big. I mean 5 or 6 instead of 7 or 8 and in favor 1 or 2 for the little ones.

Ok, next year, we'll host the Euros. Eligible first the little ones ;-).

wo-ufp1 wrote:

Is there any reason why the big countries (france, germany, spain) have 7 or 8 slots/teams (or more) and the little ones have no one?
Hey, we are in the european union and all staats have one vote ;-) (or so?)

Less for the big! I mean not one slot for the big. I mean 5 or 6 instead of 7 or 8 and in favor 1 or 2 for the little ones.

Ok, next year, we'll host the Euros. Eligible first the little ones ;-).

Good idea.
And French teams will have to play the qualifiers in other country.

Looks like the reason is to win the popularity contest. "Let's just invite the cool guys from the usual tourneys, screw the rest, they're never around anyway " .
Has anyone in the Paris commitee ever thought of an economic situation in eastern europe? No ? So maybe that's the reason why some countries are not always around on tourneys. Which should not exclude them from the EUROPEAN championchips.

I can't even guess how you imagine one, fair, qualifier tourney for people from Poland ( far north ) and Croatia (far south).
Surely some of the "bigger" countries could do with a couple less spots so that these could be fairly distributed?
Dick move.

I can understand why our mates from Irland, Portugal, Poland, Hungary and probably also Czech Rep and Crotia are unhappy because I am just equally unhappy about the slot allocation.

Van Barben wrote:

How did we choose it. We sent a survey to 20 people in Europe from the different scenes. I was asking people to tell us, the number of teams from their country that would qualify for the TOP 32 and TOP 16. We ask them to give the name and line up for each of those teams. Then we checked at the results of the last tournaments this season and main events last years as WHBPC, EHBPC, and GM2.

I didn´t answer the Mail because I did not know how to answer it and also because I strongly disagree with this way of slot allocation. You call PACHC "new" countries, so how are they to be expected to give realistic feedback on where their teams stand with regards to more established and "older" polo scenes?

Why does the polo-"strenght" (not size) of a country play such a big role in the slot allocation? I really do not
understand this and neither do I agree with it.
Is it really that necessary for the BEST 48 Teams from Europe to compete against each other? What if the TOP 48 teams were all from England, France. Would all slots have been allocated between these two countries then?
Why is there no consideration for smaller and/or "weaker" scenes?
Why is it the smaller scenes who need to cut down on their slots? Are you really happy with this kind of allocation knowing that if you would cut only one slot from the stronger countries there would be no need to exclude any country from playing at the Euros?

Van Barben wrote:

We gave 3 spots for the wildcard to PACHC, because they're new countries, we thought that exept couple of teams, the other teams were not ready to join the EHBPC, but it might be intressing for them to be part of it, to watch, to learn. That is why they got 3 slots for the wildcard.

Austria/Vienna has been playing polo since February 2008. How can this be called "new"?
We played at the Euros in Geneva and in Barcelona and had one team playing in the WildCard Tournament.
We are eager to take part in the Euros, even if we might not stand a chance against the Top 10 or 20 or even 30 teams.

Next year there are going to be more "new" countries wanting to participate at the Euros (which is awesome and SHOULD be encouraged). However, following this years slot allocation system, this will mean that "weaker" countries will get even more competition for the EHBPC-Slots, cause obviously the slots of "strong" countries are not beeing touched.

Also there is no consideration for the fact that our mates from eastern europe earn significantly less than we do in western europe. Now you are forcing them to spend even more money by attending a pre-tourney without even knowing, if they are gonna make it to the Euros or not.

Countries wanting to send a team to the Euros should get at least one slot. This would mean getting to know new players and these players getting more involved with european polo, also this would be a great way for them to improve their game.

To me it seems like the priority is to play a high level of polo even if it means letting down new scenes.

Agree^.
We've all always tried to make polo as inclusive as possible, while here the only result is to exclude the ones who are not at the absolute top, and the gap will broaden if this system is used again. Ok, fair enough, some might not do well against top 10 or 20, but still deserve a chance to compete, improve, test their chances and represent their country in the Euros.

Paris invitational 2012
So looks like the EHBPC 2012 bidding is still on.

last year everybody got at least 1 slot, the difference this year is croatia+czech rep.
germany and switzerland got 1-1 more slots this year, why can't you give that those two countries. I know that they are not playing that top level. but then do a fucking invitational if you want top level! euros should be about reprezenting yourself.

The Bisons;

We're organizing a 2x2 tourney on march 24th in Warsaw and we can decide on whom we're inviting.
But this is EUROS. Therefore, any country that is interested in participating should get at least one spot. The rest of the spots should be divided proportionately, according to the number of "applying" teams.

These decisions should not be based on where the best players are, or whom the organizer wants to please.

I have to respect that this is decision of organizaters.

But there will have to be qualifying tournament for teams from 5 countries for 3 spots (and another 3 spots for wildcard). Just for example: all 3 direct spots will win polish teams. Then in Paris will be 3 best (most competitive) teams from these countries but it will be EHBPC without representatives of some (4) countries, who wanna play.

Of course that's all question about EHBPC as most competitive tourney or represent your country (and probably let them beat your ass on the court in our case).

Greg, if this process was more transparent, then you'd probably avoid the backlash.

Obviously it's a hard process to allocate spots for the Euros, but you can easily open up the "inner workings" of the process and many scenes/teams might feel better about it all?

Also, if it's at all possible, I'd try to find a way to involve more teams in a wildcard tournament... the wildcard brings all the European communities together and is often a showcase of the "best new teams" from Europe, etc.

I don´t think transparency is what people are unhappy about.
IMO it seems quite obvious that slot allocation was done by "polo-strenght" of each country, which means new and "weaker" scenes are rather to be excluded from the Euros.

Regardless of all this slots attribution things (yes i do think that Switzerland is a bit over represented but that being said i'm not talking in the name of swiss bike polo) it's important to note two things:

- Paris has put in their bid:

"Now concerning the slots, we want to organise a tournament with 40 to 48 teams, not sure yet about the numbers of teams. We want those Euros to be a competitive tournament, so we will contact players in the different scenes to have a better idea about how compatitive is a scene"

"A 40-48 teams competitive tournament" seems pretty clear. If i have never play any major tournament (for any reason unfortunately) i could imagine that is gonna be hard to be part of the euros right?
But like martin43 said, if i see the euros as a big meeting involving every country, i will express myself against this bid.

Since Hanover has (kind of) resign their bid, what do we do, no euros this year?

We are in March, It's already too late for this year. (ask Alejandro, us, or london about organizing such a big tournament in 3-4 months...)

Maybe next year the European committee will status on the definition of the EHBPC and future organizers will have to follow the rule.

helmet wrote:

Regardless of all this slots attribution things (yes i do think that Switzerland is a bit over represented but that being said i'm not talking in the name of swiss bike polo) it's important to note two things:

- Paris has put in their bid:

"Now concerning the slots, we want to organise a tournament with 40 to 48 teams, not sure yet about the numbers of teams. We want those Euros to be a competitive tournament, so we will contact players in the different scenes to have a better idea about how compatitive is a scene"

"A 40-48 teams competitive tournament" seems pretty clear. If i have never play any major tournament (for any reason unfortunately) i could imagine that is gonna be hard to be part of the euros right?
But like martin43 said, if i see the euros as a big meeting involving every country, i will express myself against this bid.

Since Hanover has (kind of) resign their bid, what do we do, no euros this year?

We are in March, It's already too late for this year. (ask Alejandro, us, or london about organizing such a big tournament in 3-4 months...)

Maybe next year the European committee will status on the definition of the EHBPC and future organizers will have to follow the rule.

What do we do?
We tell the guys at Paris that this way of doing things suck hard and
hopefully they'll present a better or at least, less bad way of doing this thing.

So regardles to best polo,last year we send to teams to barcelone,1 slot + 1 for wild card,wild card finish 3rd equal with 2nd,and after all 2 teams finish in to 20,and this year I understand we don't even deserve 1 slot.... how is that work,I now we small country and small community compare to UK,France,Germany,but I think we show we can play some good polo over last year on few different tournaments... so Im confused now ....

C'mon, i know you guys want a high competitive championship. But if you want the best european teams to play against each other, organize a different championship, by invitation.
EHBPC, should represent how bike polo is in europe, and it should include at least one team by country. At least it is the way you'll get more people from different places and grow the european community and the local scenes.
You should definitely think about reorganizing the slot thing....

On another note:
What is the status quo for the European Polo Association?
Because the slot allocation is supposed to be a task of the EHBPA.

thats not fair. You cannot award 8+ slots for one country alone and let 5 other countries fight for 3 slots. Even a competitive Euro needs to have one slot for each applying country. The organizers sure did hard work but I dont think they considered the implications of their decision. Please rethink this. By all means: this is not fair and really leaves a bad feeling with a lot of people.

I agree with you metriod, slot allocation should have been done by the EHBPA but this comittee doesn't exist.

Why? Because some countries didn't organise some local elections, the polo community didn't work on it, etc..

So now, without EHBPA, and as "The Community" accepted Paris Bike Polo for EHBPC 2012, we should accept their decisions.

CALL ME DADDY

x1

dä schneller isch gschwinder

you have three courts, why only 48 slots? why not 64?

Ok, I'll try to make it short.

At the moment we gave 1 less spot for Switzerland for the wildcard going to Benelux for the wildcard.

We told since the beginning we want to organise European Championship, wich is supposed to be the most competitive tournament in Europe. Paris statement was clear since the beginning. If the idea would have been to organise the biggest european bike polo meeting we would have never did it, cause we are not able to do it in a city like Paris.

Concerning Portugal, I'm glad you guys are thinking about organising a qualifying tournament, but you never let us know. We asked 1 month ago who was interested by going to the Euros, we don't have any words from you guys.

Most of you are talking about fairness, but do you think it's fair to give a slot to everybody not regarding to the level and because of that avoiding some good teams in others country to play because they already have teams from their country qualifyied.

None of you guys (exept Metriod) never take part of this thread before, wich it's now open since more that 6 months, you just start to take part now it's not going on the way you want.

To us, Euros are a competition, they idea is allowing the best teams to compete against each other and trying to get a slot for Worlds, it's the way it's going since 2 years. If people think Euros should be a big european meeting of the polo community in the future we should start a new thread for the bid 2013, but I think there will be this summer big events as London Open 3 or Greif Masters 3 wich are doing that perfectly.

Concerning Ireland, you say, that you show you play good polo, cool, so you'll win a spot or two at the UK/Ireland qualfiers, fair, isn't it ?

Same with PACHC, you guys will have 3 teams in the wildcard, so if we were wrong and your teams are really good, they'll won't have any problem to beat frenchs 9th, 10th and 11th, Germans 8th, 9th & 10th etc... This is what is fair to us.

Concerning the wildcard it's impsossible to make it bigger in Rouen, We'll check for an other location wich migh help us to make an other 16 one around Paris.

.greg

Van Barben wrote:

Ok, I'll try to make it short.

At the moment we gave 1 less spot for Switzerland for the wildcard going to Benelux for the wildcard.

We told since the beginning we want to organise European Championship, wich is supposed to be the most competitive tournament in Europe. Paris statement was clear since the beginning. If the idea would have been to organise the biggest european bike polo meeting we would have never did it, cause we are not able to do it in a city like Paris.

Concerning Portugal, I'm glad you guys are thinking about organising a qualifying tournament, but you never let us know. We asked 1 month ago who was interested by going to the Euros, we don't have any words from you guys.

Most of you are talking about fairness, but do you think it's fair to give a slot to everybody not regarding to the level and because of that avoiding some good teams in others country to play because they already have teams from their country qualifyied.

None of you guys (exept Metriod) never take part of this thread before, wich it's now open since more that 6 months, you just start to take part now it's not going on the way you want.

To us, Euros are a competition, they idea is allowing the best teams to compete against each other and trying to get a slot for Worlds, it's the way it's going since 2 years. If people think Euros should be a big european meeting of the polo community in the future we should start a new thread for the bid 2013, but I think there will be this summer big events as London Open 3 or Greif Masters 3 wich are doing that perfectly.

Concerning Ireland, you say, that you show you play good polo, cool, so you'll win a spot or two at the UK/Ireland qualfiers, fair, isn't it ?

Same with PACHC, you guys will have 3 teams in the wildcard, so if we were wrong and your teams are really good, they'll won't have any problem to beat frenchs 9th, 10th and 11th, Germans 8th, 9th & 10th etc... This is what is fair to us.

Concerning the wildcard it's impsossible to make it bigger in Rouen, We'll check for an other location wich migh help us to make an other 16 one around Paris.

It's true that we do not come here often.
Only when we heard of your terrifying concept for the slots we came by and said our word.
Anyway, we had a slot last year, how come this year we have none?
One slot, it's not too much too ask, since we've at least doubled the number of active players we had last year.

Regarding this part:

"We told since the beginning we want to organise European Championship, wich is supposed to be the most competitive tournament in Europe. Paris statement was clear since the beginning. If the idea would have been to organise the biggest european bike polo meeting we would have never did it, cause we are not able to do it in a city like Paris."

I must say, that i believe it would be exactly the same, regarding organization aspects.

I really hope, you guys do the right thing and take amendments regarding the issue in cause here.

AmdM][quote=Van Barben wrote:

Ok, I'll try to make it short.

Anyway, we had a slot last year, how come this year we have none?

Easy, we asked wich country were interested by going to Paris to play the Euro and Nobody answered from Portugal. As you know some scenes are increasing, some are decreasing and some are desapearing as Danemark, Sweden ... So as long as we did not have any news from you we could not know that you guys were still playing and wanted to come for the EHBPC. So before barging on me take your responsabilities.

So basicaly without any news from you we just associated you with Spain in case of... We're now looking at a solution but at the moment we only have one spot to distribute and we're not sure Portugal deserve it more than Ireland or PACHC...

.greg

Van Barben][quote=AmdM wrote:
Van Barben wrote:

Ok, I'll try to make it short.

Anyway, we had a slot last year, how come this year we have none?

Easy, we asked wich country were interested by going to Paris to play the Euro and Nobody answered from Portugal. As you know some scenes are increasing, some are decreasing and some are desapearing as Danemark, Sweden ... So as long as we did not have any news from you we could not know that you guys were still playing and wanted to come for the EHBPC. So before barging on me take your responsabilities.

So basicaly without any news from you we just associated you with Spain in case of... We're now looking at a solution but at the moment we only have one spot to distribute and we're not sure Portugal deserve it more than Ireland or PACHC...

Where or whom did you ask?
If it was here, yeah i don't come here often, but then again i doubt that any member of Bike Polo Portugal have been contacted by email, i would know.
If you only have one spot, my strong belief is that you should give it to that group of 5 countries disputing
3 slots (that's really bad, really, really bad). Add another one to that and they can just share it,
the same as saying each one of them gets a slot and they can just make a national qualifier instead of spending big bucks traveling outdoors.

As for Portugal, we had a slot last year, and this year we managed to have an exponential growth in the number of players regarding the 1st club (Lisbon), add to that the creation of a second club at the end of 2011
and Portugal bike polo scene is simply about twice bigger than it was last year, so...

Feel free to do whatever you want!

I'm currently the spokesman for Lisbon Bike Polo, so if you feel you need it, don't hesitate to ask my mail by pm.

Best Regards
Miguel

Published on this thread 10 Feb 2012.

We already know who to contact in :

UK
Germany
Spain
Switerland
Italy
Beneligue
Ireland

If your country is not on this list, can you please contact me via lobp or FB.

--------

We're still thinking about finding a solution for you guys.

.greg

Why cant we have 64 teams playing? then everyone would be happy.

Hey Greg,

Van Barben wrote:

We want those Euros to be a competitive tournament, so we will contact players in the different scenes to have a better idea about how compatitive is a scene.

I really doubt anyone realized that these words meant there will be countries excluded from the Euros. You should have made that implication clearer, IMO.

Do you think the Euros were not competitive (enough) last year or the year before?
Hypothetical question:
What if in x years France, Germany, Italy and UK will dominate european polo, each with 50+ established teams. Would that mean that that the Euros would be held between these four countries if the top teams from the remaining countries could not play at the level the "last placed" teams from the "big four" countries would play at?

Van Barben wrote:

Most of you are talking about fairness, but do you think it's fair to give a slot to everybody not regarding to the level and because of that avoiding some good teams in others country to play because they already have teams from their country qualifyied.

Does Paris think its fair to EXCLUDE countries and players from playing at the Euros for the sake of having a SLIGHTY more competitive tournament?

The way it´s been going for two years was to give each country that wants to participate at the EHBPC at least one slot (correct me if I am wrong). I doubt that the resulting "drop" of the level polo is played at the EHBPC is even worth considering excluding any country from participating at the - EUROPEAN - Hardcourt Bikepolo Championships.

Van Barben wrote:

Same with PACHC, you guys will have 3 teams in the wildcard, so if we were wrong and your teams are really good, they'll won't have any problem to beat frenchs 9th, 10th and 11th, Germans 8th, 9th & 10th etc... This is what is fair to us.

I don´t think this comment is reasonable and constructive. By the same logic you could ask the 8th,9th team of France and the 7th team from Germany to compete at the Wild Card Tournament (which is gonna start almost 1 week before the actual Euros -> lots of additional costs) because you explanation implies that these teams are gonna win the Wild Card Tournament.

Also, at least from Austria there was no claim saying that we are "really good". No we are not (though I do think that we could have performed better than we did in Barcelona but were surprised by slippery courts), but we are part of the european polo community and this why the EHBPC is the tournament we, the "weak" countries, are looking forward and want to participate at most. If it is in within our means, we will also attend other tournaments "prove" (sic) ourselves.

Van Barben wrote:

To us, Euros are a competition, they idea is allowing the best teams to compete against each other and trying to get a slot for Worlds, it's the way it's going since 2 years.

It's your point of you(rs), and that's Ok.

But!
Lookt at ALL World Tournaments (like Football WM, EM et all and especially the Olympics!). Thats not the best Teams or Indiviudals, there are the representives of ALL countries.
Only the preliminary competitions is fighting for the qualifications (it means World/Euro competitions).

What you plan is more like the French Open (Tennis). Only the best ranking players could play this tournament. So yours.

wo-ufp1][quote=Van Barben wrote:

But!
Lookt at ALL World Tournaments (like Football WM, EM et all and especially the Olympics!). Thats not the best Teams or Indiviudals, there are the representives of ALL countries.
Only the preliminary competitions is fighting for the qualifications (it means World/Euro competitions).

What you plan is more like the French Open (Tennis). Only the best ranking players could play this tournament. So yours.

Wrong, EVERY COUNTRY have a chance to go to the EUro by playing a local qualifying tournament. So our system is closer than Football etc... than tennis. If we would organised that as tennis there would have been more team from the UK, Germany and France.

.greg

http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/general/2012/03/07/euros-2012-qulifier...
I have set a topic in the FORUM for the countries form the PACHC Group to have their say in the way to chose the 3 teams goin to EUROS. POLAND as mentioned earlier woud like to organise suck tournament. PLEASE PACHC have your say there. There is nothing we can do to change the French decision. It is very sad to see this happening. I think that maybe that there should eb easter Euros and western Euros organised. :)
ANyway... please lets talk it through becasue time is ticking.

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

.

CALL ME DADDY

You are going to have the wildcard at a different time than the tourney in a different location? And cap it? That is madness. The standard is to host an uncapped wildcard in the days immediately before the tourney. If you can't host that, in your city, then you should not host the Euros.

And giving France 9 spots is taking the piss. I can count five "top 16" French teams and five "top 16" UK teams. After that there are easily an equal number of "top 32" UK teams as there are French teams, arguably more. I count 7 "top 32" UK teams. That's two less than we sent you originally. Drop the bottom two teams, you still have 7 solid teams of experienced players who have played well in a lot of tournies.

MALICE for the people.

The Euroes are a championship and a precursor to the Worlds. Therefore, IMO, they should always be about the best teams.

I think this idea is confused a bit when spots are handed out nationally, as it gives a sense, as mentioned by Metroid earlier, that countries are competing in the Euroes. When really it is not nation that is being represented, just teams.

The way of resolving this would be to hold NA style regionals. However, Europe was ill prepared for it this year.

While the number of spots given to Italy and Switzerland may be out of proportion to the dilution of spots elsewhere. Considering the Bid's commitment to a competitive tournament and given that allocation by country will never be entirely satisfactory, I myself, am grateful to Paris, who alone in our community, really stepped up to this thankless task.

EW wrote:

The Euroes are a championship and a precursor to the Worlds. Therefore, IMO, they should always be about the best teams.

Why is there even a need for the Euros if they are just supposed to be a precursor to the Worlds? If we already know who the top teams in Europe are so why don´t we just give em the WHBPC-Slots for Europe?

By this logic the Euros should be called EWPT - European Worlds Preparation Tourney.

EW wrote:

The Euroes are a championship and a precursor to the Worlds. Therefore, IMO, they should always be about the best teams.

I think this idea is confused a bit when spots are handed out nationally, as it gives a sense, as mentioned by Metroid earlier, that countries are competing in the Euroes. When really it is not nation that is being represented, just teams.

The way of resolving this would be to hold NA style regionals. However, Europe was ill prepared for it this year.

While the number of spots given to Italy and Switzerland may be out of proportion to the dilution of spots elsewhere. Considering the Bid's commitment to a competitive tournament and given that allocation by country will never be entirely satisfactory, I myself, am grateful to Paris, who alone in our community, really stepped up to this thankless task.

Since the slots are being handled by Country, then yes, it´s a nation being represented.
Resolving this NA style regionals way is not a option in Europe.
US are a single country and the cost for air tickets in the US are nothing compared to the price
of tickets in Europe. Add to that the factor that many EU countries have an average income that it's very low,
and you have yourself a situation where teams/countries will be auto excluded in advance just for the mere fact that they can't afford it.
You took notice of Switzerland and Italy may be out of proportion,
maybe that's true, but don't doubt for a second that there are others with too much slots assigned.
Even if you give a slot at least for each country new in the scene/ lower lever of bike polo,
you would still have a LOT of slots to distribute between the more powerful countries,
therefore the tournament would still be very competitive and certainly the best euro teams
would all grab their slot to the world's.

NAH = 3 countries, not just US.And it often costs more for me to fly from Toronto to Vancouver as it would to fly Toronto to London.

The challenges to make a non-nation based system for europe are 1) language and 2) nationalism. But nationalism should also be seen as an incentive to move away from a nation based system.

Chukker Norris wrote:

You are going to have the wildcard at a different time than the tourney in a different location? And cap it? That is madness. The standard is to host an uncapped wildcard in the days immediately before the tourney. If you can't host that, in your city, then you should not host the Euros.

And giving France 9 spots is taking the piss. I can count five "top 16" French teams and five "top 16" UK teams. After that there are easily an equal number of "top 32" UK teams as there are French teams, arguably more. I count 7 "top 32" UK teams. That's two less than we sent you originally. Drop the bottom two teams, you still have 7 solid teams of experienced players who have played well in a lot of tournies.

Couldn't have said it better.

Funny to read that by 2 peoples who know France that well.

Rouen is 1h10 to Paris by train, it is as long as going from west to east in London.

+ they got a great court and they're able to host player for free for the wildcard tournament, wich make it cheapest to go and play there that booking 2 nights in Paris.

So I can understand that some peoples did not share our competitive view of the EUROS, but I'm bored to read some shitty argumentations trying to show that what we're doing is stupid. It's been month we're working on that and do you really think we just decided things without thinking about it before...

Mat, I assume UK and mainly London are the biggest scene in Europe, but in term of result it looks like France is really dominating the Euro TOurnaments since the beggining of the season, that is why we decided to allow France one more slot.

Beneligue in Namur won by DTGP.
Alps League in GVA won Call Me Daddy.
TOurnament in Saragosse won by Shaft Punk.
London Invitational won by Hooks against Cocorico
Cambridge won Hooks.
Epiphanie won by Hooks against Call Me Marmou

.greg

Greg,

I take your point about Rouen being close to Paris, but there is also the issue of two weekends. That is two distinct trips, double the cost, and also it removes the wildcard from the main event, which is a major benefit of doing them together -- to have everyone in the same place.

I also agree, of course, that France has been dominating, with its top five teams. But after that all the teams are mid-table teams, all basically even on any given day, and I think there are more UK teams in this category than French teams.

cheers,
matt

MALICE for the people.

Matt,

Sorry if there is a misunderstood, but the idea is making the tournament in Rouen on wednesday and thursday and Euros on friday and saturday. As its done in every tournament with a Wildcard. ;o)

The Choice of Rouen was, that it is impossible to book the place in Paris longer than 4 days (2days of tournament, 1 for buidling and 1 for cleaning).

Yeah I know it's pretty difficult to etablish a ranking based on mid-table teams, we just felt France were bit up compared to Germany and UK, but I guess you guys will come to Paris to proove us we were wrong.

++

.greg

Greg,

Oh, I see. I thought it was the weekend before. My error, sorry. This is much, much better than I thought. Thanks for the clarification.

One more question: Can Le BigMac play the French qualies? We've got one Frenchman + a French name? :)

cheers,
matt

MALICE for the people.

Unfortunately for Le Big Mac you can't. To play the french qualies, you need a team with 2/3 players leaving in France. Plus we already start our qualification system with the prequalies in Lyon last WE.

.greg

Of course those who get a lot of spots are grateful. However, If the best teams only played in UK and Germany for instance, would you hand all the spots to them, leaving 5 spots to the rest of Europe to compete for? Technically, that's kinda the same situation as we have now.

Euros or NA, or the Worlds should indeed be as competitive, but at the same time, it should be a review of European polo scene, not a gathering of old friends. Therefore, The amount of "good" players should not be the initial criteria for allocation of spots.

I'm not even commenting on splitting the Wild Card and Euros with a week: look what people said above.
From Central/Eastern European perspective: try to come across the continent for ten days instead of three, when you make 300-400 euros a month and everything there is twice as expensive as at home :/

there are easily two sides to this discussion, people like emmet who are expected to qualify, so when they reach the tournament they can play against the best possible teams there. and then there are the less known teams/countries who feel like they're chance at becoming part of the 'european scene' is being closed off as they're not allowed to attend biggest event of the polo calendar, because of 'stronger, better established teams'.
Each side has its reasons and objectives. (and obviously those reasons are not exhaustive). would there be a way to make both sides happy?

France : 7 (2)
UK: 7 (2)
Ireland: 1 (1)
Germany : 6 (3)
Switzerland : 5 (2)
Spain: 4 (1)
Portugal : 1 (1)
Italy : 5 (2)
Beneligue : 3 (1)
Poland: 1 (1)
Austria: 1 (1)
Croatia: 1 (1)
Hungary: 1 (1)
Czech Rep : 1 (1)
Wild Card : 4

Surely this would allow each of the 'newer' scenes to field one team to gauge their country against a european standard, while still allowing the majority of the slots for the bigger, more established scenes.

I can understand the backlash must be disheartening. It was the same last year. some people will always be disappointed.

EHBPC 2011:

5 slots for Switzerland, 2 teams made it to the TOP 32.
3 slots for Benelux, one team made TOP32.
10 slots for UK, 7 teams made TOP 32.
8 slots for Germany, 8 teams made TOP32.
7 slots for Italy, 3 teams made TOP32.
5 slots for Spain, 2 made TOP32.
8 slots for France, 6 made TOP32. (4 in total making TOP20)
(Please correct if I made any mistake)
http://www.ehbpc.org/teams/
http://www.ehbpc.org/2011/we-have-a-winner/

So, how were the slots allocated?
-Size didn´t play a role as you asked specifically in your mail not to reply stating how many cities / teams each country has.
-Last years Euro results do not seem to have played that much of a role either.
-Asking "new" countries how good their teams will compete is unrealistic.

PS: Well done Germany for getting all 8 participating teams to the TOP 32!

PS II: My criticism is only with regards to the slot allocation. Not towards the Euros in Paris (which I was REALLY looking forward to)

Just to correct this:

5 slots for Switzerland, 4 teams made it to the TOP 32. =>+ Ponies couldn't attend, but ended up 4th in seattle (WHBPC)
1. L'équipe
2. Moteur Fuckers
3. Les Vieux Fritz
4. King salami (from wild card)

8 slots for France, 6 made TOP32. (4 in total making TOP20) =>+ DTGP couldn't attend, but ended up 9th in seattle (WHBPC)

And if I may add:

Those countries had one spot each
Austria
1. Banana Thieves
Hungary
1. Budapest Bike Polo
Ireland
1. Tour de Court
Poland
1. Apollo3

but only Budapest made it to TOP 32 (top 20 actually)

Thanks, I was actually going to mention that Iron Ponies couldn´t attend but forgott about it while looking the results up ...

@DirtyMartini:
The Euros also serve as slot allocaiton for the Worlds (not claiming that Austria could make a rank that would allow them a WHBPC-Slot). I wouldn´t call it "just another tourney".

Worlds are just an other big tourney too. I mean, If you absolutely want to play polo against U.S teams, go to usa for two month and have fun.

It happens at every tournament that many teams can t participate. I know how frustrating this can be. But we all should be thankfull and respectfull to people Who work hard to organize tourneys.

Team Sophie - Switzerland

Thanks woods for this correction about switzerland.

More generally, i really think some reactions here are really exagerated. And not fair toward the organizers. New scenes should be the first and most motivated to build a euro org. And to fix a way
Of attribution of slots. But i didnt see much of this. Sad.

As there is no otficial org. And rule set, ehbpc is simply a big tournament. So i don t know why people contest and criticize the work of the organizers. Do we prefer the first come first served approach ?
And Greg is right, there are many other tournaments...

Team Sophie - Switzerland

DTGP 7th in Seattle ;)
And Greg didn t play the euro with "MGM" because he was in NA for sure They would have made top 16 minimum
good look woody

Hugo wrote:

DTGP 7th in Seattle ;)
And Greg didn t play the euro with "MGM" because he was in NA for sure They would have made top 16 minimum
good look woody

France 6/8 at EUros last year, but the 2 teams out were spartons because the replace DTGP (Hugo & Kev at BM) and MSM (Stephan to replace me) because I was at BM as well, otherwise both team would have finished TOP16 for sure and France probably made a 8/8.

.greg

7 UK teams in the top 32.

But I'm not sure how much this matters -- it was a year ago, and one year is a long time in polo.

MALICE for the people.

We should just start using the New Format already.

No, Emmet, no!

MALICE for the people.

Yep, one newformat team by country, easy.

3 last anwers :

- No to the 64 teams tournament, we don't want people coming to paris to play only 4 games. We want people there to play as much as possible.

- Shane I'm sorry, but we won't change the slots distribution as I told you, it looks unfair to us to avoid good teams in some countries to come to allow other teams to go directly in. Switzerland is ok to have one less slot wich will be allocated to an other country or group of countries soon.

- Concerning the wildcard wich is not really a wildcard now, because we decided to allocated slots, this is the only way we found to avoid the first connected first served with online registration wich sucks and wich is not polo.

.greg

Van Barben wrote:

- Shane I'm sorry, but we won't change the slots distribution as I told you, it looks unfair to us to avoid good teams in some countries to come to allow other teams to go directly in.

Van Barben wrote:

wich is not polo.

IMO

So strong countries can´t even share one slot to allow for no country to be excluded.

Real pity but seems like your decision is made.

greg, thanks for addressing that. I was proposing it as an idea to try and find middle ground, as there are ideological differences about what the euro's stand for.
of course you can never satisfy everyone for slots, as everybody wants to play, since the euros is a fantastic tournament. and i imagine that paris will be great. even if i don't get to play, i'll hopefully be there for the experience/throw-ins. i wouldn't get too disheartened from this discussion. the euros, as always, will be a great tournament.
good luck with the organisation.

shane00001 wrote:

greg, thanks for addressing that. I was proposing it as an idea to try and find middle ground, as there are ideological differences about what the euro's stand for.
of course you can never satisfy everyone for slots, as everybody wants to play, since the euros is a fantastic tournament. and i imagine that paris will be great. even if i don't get to play, i'll hopefully be there for the experience/throw-ins. i wouldn't get too disheartened from this discussion. the euros, as always, will be a great tournament.
good luck with the organisation.

Thanks for understanding our point even if you're not nessessarily sharing it. We thought it was clear since the beginning that we wanted to make the Euro the reference as a competitive tournament. I'm pretty sure people who want to travel meet the polo community and show the people what they're able to do will find what they're looking for with LO3 and GM3.

.greg

I think the problem lies in part with the grouping of so many countries together. Specially mixing established scenes such as Hungary with complete noobs such as Croatia or the Czech Republic.

Even if you've thought about your method for very long, you've pissed off entire communities (which will happen regardless of what you do), but you'll definitely have to give in a bit.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Mr.Carrillo wrote:

you've pissed off entire communities

As Alejandro said.

Anyways, bottom line is, "go somewhere else, there are plenty of tournaments".

"Come back when you are good enough to play with us"

Mr.Carrillo wrote:

Specially mixing established scenes such as Hungary with complete noobs such as Croatia or the Czech Republic.

Do i Know you? :)
Some how i all ready fell connection between u and me.

Regards,
Matej

Tyre calligraphy of Zagreb

Hehe.

Hope to see you in Paris!

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Well, I don't organise this tournament, so I respect this decision. Maybe it could be better for us(Hungary)
because we hade some nice result in the last year, but ok. I don't care. I don't care any other thing. I can think only one thing. I want to play at Euros in this year, and I will do everything, that this should be so. If need, I go Warsawa, If need I go Pardubice or anywhere. It's my opinion. Thanks.

The Bisons

A lot of teams who are disappointed have known another way of polo life. During those good old days there were only 40 teams in europe and everybody could play EHBPC... It's obvious that it's not possible to do the same thing today. We are going to play a national championship with 48 teams in france, and if you ask them, each team would love to play euros... It's sad but when more and more teams appear you can't make everybody happy anymore.
Guys in Paris are working hard on this project and no other city/community is able to do a strong tournament like that. We have to respect this even if the decisions aren't good for our own situation.

Concerning Ireland, you say, that you show you play good polo, cool, so you'll win a spot or two at the UK/Ireland qualfiers, fair, isn't it ?

So now we have to battle against bigger polo scene in europe,thats just amazing,and say if Im wrong,you saying french is the strongest polo scene this year,but you give spots from the results from last year,and that time UK was the strongest,if you would count top 30 european teams I would say they ahead of you guys,so is that correct... so Im just confused of the spot allocation,coz the last year results mean nothing year later,and for small country like us fight for a spot with the giant of europe is just bit unfair... about PACHC... Im from poland,and I just leave in Ireland,and in my opinion giving 3 slots for all of them is just hilarious and the giving one spot each for organizers... on you way of thinking,they should fight for a spot like everyone one else if Im correct ... nothing against you guys,my better half is french so I love you all and can't wait for summer,I just try to understand the idea behind that.... paka pa

Slots distribution was based on results on the main Events last year EURO, WORLDS and GM2 + the results of the tournament since the beginning of the season. I already wrote that, so please read my previous post.

Last year at worlds Seattle got a spot for organising and Cascadia as well for being the region were the wolrds were hosted. Nobody complain about that because it's just logical.

15 people from Paris Bike Polo are involved in the organisation most of them will have to use some day off to build the courts, clean the place, buy the stuffs, finding partners... So regarding to all those sacrifices those people will do, to offer the best tournament as possbile we don't think offering the right to 3 of them to play is a scandal.

.greg

Van Barben wrote:

15 people from Paris Bike Polo are involved in the organisation most of them will have to use some day off to build the courts, clean the place, buy the stuffs, finding partners... So regarding to all those sacrifices those people will do, to offer the best tournament as possbile we don't think offering the right to 3 of them to play is a scandal.

Can´t they make it through the French qualifiers?
Or are they not good enough? Wouldn´t that mean, that the tournament gets less competitive?

As Greg said, we saw the job made by the Seattle community to organise such a great tournament, and give a slot to organisers has been and must be respected.
EHBPC and WHBPC can take place I don't know where, I will support this idea to encourage people to organise those events.

CALL ME DADDY

William Jr. wrote:

As Greg said, we saw the job made by the Seattle community to organise such a great tournament, and give a slot to organisers has been and must be respected.

It is very contradictory, if Greg says the aim for the Euros is to be the most competitive tournament and thus giving the PACHC only 3 slots, because we are "weak" but at the same time giving Paris and Rouen two (or is it just one? I am not sure I understood it correctly) slots because of the work they put into the tournament.
If the Paris and Rouen "organizing" team can´t get their slot by playing in the french qualifying system, it means they will drop the level of polo played at the Euros.

So,
1. it is OK for 5 countries to only have 3 slots, because they are "weak" polo players.
2. at the same time Rouen and Paris get each an extra slot for their organizing team (because they would not be able to get their slots if they would go through the french qualifiers)

I don´t disagree with giving Rouen and Paris an slot for all the hard work they put into the tournament, but not at the cost of excluding countries from the Euros. You could cut one slot from France and Germany and give it to the organizing teams.
Why is this less of an option than excluding countries from playing at the Euros, which is the result of the current slot allocation that really troubles me.

Hey, you know what, stop writting, go training. And don't worry about the competitivity of the tournament and of this team.

And please stop talking about fairness when you're not able to recognize that people, who will spend 4 months of organising the best tournament as they can, giving their time after working and the WE, using their holidays to built court, don't deserve to part of it. And if you knew polo that well, you would know that having a slot for organising is something really usual in most of the tournaments since years.

.greg

Fair enough, I was (am) seeing a contradiction in your words but will stop writing if there is no constructive base to talk at.

Good luck with the further organisaiton.

I think the main problem for 'EHBPC 2012: The Main Event' will be the low attendance, 48 competing teams + WAGs is gonna make for a pretty low-key tourney...

We're not looking for organising the Main Event, but the most competitive tournament.

.greg

Concerning Ireland, you say, that you show you play good polo, cool, so you'll win a spot or two at the UK/Ireland qualfiers, fair, isn't it ?

it is easy to forget that ireland is disconnected from mainland europe, which makes it less fair to group us with the uk than grouping other connected countries together. like shane, i don't agree with this but understand where you guys are coming from. the reaction of people on this forum shows the necessity of a EHBPA for 2013. for now, keep up the good work paris, it looks like this will be an amazing tourney

First and foremost I would like to give credit to the Paris' crew for taking up the huge and ungratefull task, it is to host an event of this size - especially you Greg for being the one who sticks your head out to the public and takes the beating that comes with it.

With that said, I feel like parts of the European scene have completely lost track of what the Euros - in my opinion - should be and what it should represent. In no other team sport do you see such a distortion of slot allocations in the main European event - you can call it what you want, but the fact is that the European Championships is the main event of this season. I agree, that one of the most important tasks of the Euros is to send the most competetive teams to the Worlds - but I believe that it's even more important for the Euros the embrace the whole European scene - which in the end will result in a stronger and more consolidated scene.

Grouping 5 countrys together, expecting them to travel hundreds of kilometers to hold their own 'regional' qualifier, while giving France, UK, Germany, Switzerland and especially Italy the amount of slots they have - is just elitist bullshit to be honest. I don't care how dominating your scene is, one country should not be allowed more than 1 slot - if there a other European countrys with no slots at all. That is what the Wildcard tournament should be for, not for countrys who in the eyes of the organizers are 2nd rank in a European sense. As this tournament is forming (and I don't just mean this year) I think we should renounce the label European Championships and instead host a yearly tournament for the European teams with the best results from the past year and have that act as the qualifier for Worlds instead. At least until we have an European organizing body who can take responsibility for the European Championships.

Nice one Paris for stepping up for 2012, you will always get (constructive) criticism from the community, try not to shut it out (I know it's probably frustrating as hell).

I agree with Jacob above. The Euros have always managed to balance being highly competitive with being inclusive.

I understand that Paris have prioritised the competitive side, but I can also see why some of the decisions you've made are very hard to swallow.

At the very least I would have expected all the teams from last year's top 32 to be awarded a spot for their country, for example: Budapest (17th last year) should have earned Hungary their own spot, grouping them with the other countries doesn't make any sense?! What's the logic there?

Tour De Court (Ireland) did very well last year and have been improving much faster than many teams from smaller scenes/countries... you've effectively made it near impossible for them to get to Paris by grouping them with the UK for qualification? Again, it seems like you've neglected to realise how important it is for these smaller scenes to be nurtured if bike polo is to continue to grow and have an exciting future?

Finally, I can't help but feel that you've crippled the wild card for 2012, so many teams won't be coming to Paris now (way to kill the vibe at your tournament)... again this stunts growth/the sharing of knowledge and relying on other tournaments (LO3, GM3) is a pretty poor way of passing the buck (there is no guarantee the LO will happen this year for example).

+1 jono. i think you said there what a lot of other people were too frustrated to articulate properly. clear and valid concerns.

"there is no guarantee the LO will happen this year for example", say it ain't so! i hope that you're using this to frame an argument and don't mean it literally.

If it does happen, it will be the best London Open yet, but I'm currently trying (and failing) to secure the required funding... I will do everything to make it happen, but like I said: no guarantees.

We're not passing the buck, because we are really assuming the choice of a competitive tournament.

Telling people that there will be big tournaments for people who desire to travel and have fun with polo this summer is not a way to pass anything it's a fact.

We made the choice of having a very competitve tournament for the Euros instead of a big meeting of the polo community. I notice that they're not that many people complaining againt this choice and I've read on different forum and network that this is a popular idea for lot's of players. This might need to be discuss, but it'll be more interessing to create a thread for that. Cause Paris Bike Polo won't change his mind on this point.

Plus, to us playing the wildcard is being part of the Euros. So when you see 3 slots for PACHC, we see 6 opportunities for teams to live the Euros experience. Team playing the wild card will play more game that team playing the Euros and not qualified for the TOP32.

We're actually looking for an other place in Paris or Paris Area to make an other wildcard tournament. But nothing shure yet.

.greg

Totally agree with Jacob and Jono.
And also think it's very fair to give the organizers spots. They're doing hard work and fair play, can get a spot or two. But then France shouldn't need so many overall on top of that.

And yeah, Hungary should get a spot for sure, they rocked last year.

Greg, why would other countries complain if you gave them more spots than they expected ? It doesn't make sense, they don't want to lose them.

From what I've read was mainly the fact of competiting against the top Euros teams wich make them happy. But you're right about the point they won't complain if they're happy with number of slots they've got.

.greg

I agree abour Hungry! they shoudl get a spot of their own.
Jono adn Jacob had said some great stuff. thanks

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

is the date for the wildcard and the main tournament fix?

It's great to hear that you are looking for a spot in Paris to do the wildcard (or another wildcard). If you could pull that off I think it would make a lot of people happy.

But there is still a lingering question: why not 64 teams? I know you said because you want the teams to get to play more games. But it seems this is the major problem, and you could be both competitive and inclusive if you increased it to 64 teams.

Inclusiveness has been one of the great things about the Euros in the past. I think there was an expectation that that would continue. So for Paris to shift emphasis -- a decision made by a dozen people that affects hundreds of players -- is what is pissing people off, I think.

Until we have a standardized qualification system, and a lot of debate among the Euro community about what we want the Euros to be, I think it is premature for Paris to break from tradition and drop the inclusive aspect of the Euros. Obviously, we'll still get amazingly competitive polo on the final day.

MALICE for the people.

Chukker Norris wrote:

But there is still a lingering question: why not 64 teams? I know you said because you want the teams to get to play more games. But it seems this is the major problem, and you could be both competitive and inclusive if you increased it to 64 teams.

As an organizer of many tournaments, and player, and past participant of EHBPC (2009), i disagree with dr norris: make it better, not bigger. It's tempting as an organizer to see the potential registration revenue from having an additional 16 teams, but i generally think it leads to a worse experience for most teams. Don't push the limits of the number of courts available, or the organizing team.

@kev -- Maybe in this case, if we have limited court space, then you are right: don't push it. But there is a larger question of what bike poloists want the NAs/Euros/Worlds want to be. The tradition for the Euros and Worlds has been to go with 64 teams, which allows for both inclusiveness and competitiveness.

The final double elim will always be highly competitive polo. You can have a atmosphere that is more fun and festive, and has more spectators for the final day, if you allow 64 teams. This should be a requirement for every host, imo.

Barcelona with 64 teams plus around 40 in the wildcard was fucking awesome.

Bike polo is cool because of its inclusiveness.

MALICE for the people.

Chukker Norris wrote:

Bike polo is cool because of its inclusiveness.

inclusivity also means anyone can organize a tournament, and we sometimes hear people who have never organized an event, but who have been to many, ask volunteer organizers to be more "inclusive".

assuming all things are equal, of course i'd rather see a bigger event. but at some point there is a tradeoff between quality and quantity and as long as tournament organizing remains volunteer, i'd lean towards the former.

all that said, the discussion seems more about representation than inclusivity. increasing the size might address both issues but the quality might go down, that was my main point.

" tradeoff between quality and quantity"

Oh god! We are talking about 4 spots out of 48! By redistiributing 4 spots to the smaller polo-countries all of them could take part.

The Bisons;

actually i was talking about chukker's idea to change it to 64 teams from 48. i think that redistributing a few spots could be a good idea.

David aka zerge wrote:

" tradeoff between quality and quantity"

Oh god! We are talking about 4 spots out of 48! By redistiributing 4 spots to the smaller polo-countries all of them could take part.

We on the same way of thinking...I don't think that would bring the level down in the tournaments,at the end of the day last 16 teams are the best in europe,but don't give a chance for small communities is just not fair...some people have work,school and like one of my team mate this is his final year,so whats that mean he not gonna be able to go to UK and fight for a spot,its different if you traveling in you own country,you need day and night to do this,for us we talking about 3 days with mean a lot... but I respect decision of Paris even if I don't agree... I just think some people might get surprise from those new countries in the future,by now I see polo really exclusive and that for sure don't help...

I've organized tournaments before too, Kevin, including the first EHBPC (2009).

During the 2010 season, in particular, if I remember clearly, it emerged on this forum that the most basic principle for an organizing city to put in bids is that they have to be able to secure good courts. Given that the last few years of Euros have been 64 team tournies with unlimited wildcards, there was a widespread European expectation that the 2012 Euros would follow a similar format.

I still find it hard to believe there is not a single parking lot in Paris that could be reserved for a 64 team tourney.

MALICE for the people.

Geneva EHBPC was a 48 teams, Group based and without wildcard tournament.

London hosted a 40 teams tournament as well without a wildcard, it only happened in Barcelona really

Okay, shit, my memory sucks. I was thinking Geneva was 64 with a wildcard. My mistake, sorry. I must have mixed that up with Berlin Worlds 2011. Both that and Barca were 64 + unlimited wildcard, I think.

@Woods -- EHBPC 2009 was a different story ... much smaller scene, 40 spots was big for Europe back then.

MALICE for the people.

I totally agree, but even back then, with 40 slots and maybe 4 times less teams in europe, there was scandal in the air right ? and that's my point, even last year, people were yelling about how unfair it was that one country had too many slots when others had only one. Tourneys can't grow proportionnaly as polo community is growing, it's just not possible to host such a huge event when you have a job etc... it's too bad, but not possible

woods wrote:

I totally agree, but even back then, with 40 slots and maybe 4 times less teams in europe, there was scandal in the air right ? and that's my point, even last year, people were yelling about how unfair it was that one country had too many slots when others had only one. Tourneys can't grow proportionnaly as polo community is growing, it's just not possible to host such a huge event when you have a job etc... it's too bad, but not possible

I don't think that's relevant to the issue in cause here.
And that is, some countries have an obnoxious number of slots and others (many) have none.
In fact that's kind of like contradicting yourself, when you recognize that bike polo community is growing and at the same time you close it a bit, by restraining the number of nations allowed to participate.

you're right my post is missing its conclusion:

" Tourneys can't grow proportionnaly as polo community is growing, it's just not possible to host such a huge event when you have a job etc... it's too bad, but not possible" ...

The more we are progressing, the more bike polo is growing and less easy it is to host huge EHBPC that can involve everyone. considering that, European Championships have now to become EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS and be the tournament where the 48 best teams in europe fight over the CHAMPION title, not the tourney where everyone can meet up every year to catch up.

We have to stop the craziness about having something always bigger, so that cities in Europe can think about hosting EHBPC in a decent and appropriate way for players spending a lot of money to come, as well as for organisers spending a lot of time (and therefor money) organising it. I think this has been the major problem with EHBPC so far since it is born. And that's why it is harder and harder every year to find a city that will host this event.

so it isn't about excluding people from it, but redefining the aim and the format of this major event. Hard work !! Paris just made the first step of this hard transition

It's true that hardcourt bike polo will have to make that transition -- toward professionalization -- soon, or is making it now. But I'll push for the big inclusive tournies and leave the transitions to you young'ns.

Just consulted the stickers and got the dates right: WHBPC 2010 Berlin, EHBPC 2011 Barcelona. So it was the last to major Euro tournies that had 64 + wildcard.

MALICE for the people.

yeah i wasnt talking about you, its just a sentiment i've heard so many times....

remember the first Midwests? There were NINE teams and we thought that was a big deal. People need to organize more, smaller events, not fewer bigger ones. unless polo players are ready to shell out the registration fees to pay the salary for the months worth of work that it takes to put on a big event these days.

Three states is huge!

MALICE for the people.

It'll be on a public sports area, we will have limited hours to acces to this place. So it makes impossile to organise a proper tournament with 64 teams.

Concerning the wildcard, the idea is finding a place to organise a 2nd wildecard, then we will have 2 tournaments (Rouen + the other place) with 16 teams each and 2 best teams from each tournament will join the Euros. This is not something official just a thing that we're working on.

.greg

Better than nothing. Thanks for looking into this.

MALICE for the people.

although I'm from one of the "big" countries ... +1 on inclusiveness.

.

Stupid question Greg, asked intentionally here to see the reaction of the "bigger":

If all well served country (expect France of course lol i'm not that crazy) would be willing to sacrifice one of their spot to have a little more "inclusive" but still very competitive tournament, would you mind?

I respect the decision of Paris Bike Polo and i'm for the best competitive tournament, but i'm curious about the "newer" scene, i'd be glad to disgust them of polo ON the court rather that because they are OUT.

(And the trash talking begins...)

You should clearly ask what you want. Paris Bike Polo made is choice concerning the orientation of the tournament (competition) and the spot distribution.

That is why we are not looking about opening more the Main tournament but offering more teams the possibility to play the wildcard, wich I reapeat is part of the Euros.

.greg

So what we should understand that some of us are the europe A and some a B,you talking about going to more tournaments in the continent and let people we are there,but did you consider its harder to some countries like us or east europe,for us first thing is we are isolated from everyone so go for weekend to continent is a big bucks,for east europe on other hand its so far that cost and travel west its really expensive,let me ask you question,did you ever went for a tournament let say to poland to prove you guys so much better then them,I don't think so... So its european thing that we have to be united and help each other and push others to the limits,but how can we now what level are different part of europe is when we don't consider west and east as a united europe and euros are the one of the moments we can share experience and get to now each other... try to understand results from tournaments in france or uk don't show quality of polo scene in europe,they show quality of 20 or 30 teams that always go to each other,thats it,its alright,but lets remember other places play and to tournaments you guys didn't even consider coz you don't now anybody there...Thanks good night ...

Isnt the most intresting part in Bikepolo the development?! For me it is! To see new sorts of mallets, bikes...in general, ideas to improve this young, but quickly growing sport. Its the same with the tournaments. They improve and new ideas come up how to qualifie, how to rank, about the format or how to get rid off all the bikes lying next to the courts (well done seattle). Its a process.
Bikepolo is still so small. The number theoratically still allows us to meet all together in a big festival.
This community is open for everybody and surely doesnt want to separate. But dont make the mistake to compare bikepolo to any other common, established sports. It still has to find its defined rules ("the process", remember) We are a community, not some country-representing-association-assholes. We are still at the point, that the host is taking care about exactly everything. Paris seems well organized and I am sure they had some long thoughts about it.

Euros seriously are not about a big european meetup ("festival", remember). They are about finding out who is the top european teams (or rather who will be called Champ for one year) AND who will be to be remembered for the future, who did surprise! Which is always an indication for a good regional/national community. I see no disadvantage for good, encouraged, upcoming teams to show there skills. And Euros shouldnt be bigger than 48 teams! Neither should worlds. I am not sure if this is arogant, but those tournaments you should have proven you are a good opponent. (3x 5-0 in group games are boring for looser, winner and crowd)

Its a circle. Surprise on normal tournaments --> go to more and more tournaments --> get recognized by the community --> surprise at the euros --> be addicted to this shit and spend all your money on trips, bikes and mallets --> surprise at worlds --> get even more addicted and post stupid things on forums --> win euros and worlds :P

This is my general thought about how far polo is in general at this point. It dosent go to east, west, north or south. I just tried to understand both sides and this was the result.

Cant wait to see this years "most surprising team"!

Its a circle. Surprise on normal tournaments --> go to more and more tournaments --> get recognized by the community --> surprise at the euros --> be addicted to this shit and spend all your money on trips, bikes and mallets --> surprise at worlds --> get even more addicted and post stupid things on forums --> win euros and worlds :P

This is my general thought about how far polo is in general at this point. It dosent go to east, west, north or south. I just tried to understand both sides and this was the result.

Cant wait to see this years "most surprising team"!

.fuck.yes.!!!!

haste es voll auf den punkt getroffen :O)

polo.mo wrote:

Its a circle. Surprise on normal tournaments --> go to more and more tournaments --> get recognized by the community --> surprise at the euros --> be addicted to this shit and spend all your money on trips, bikes and mallets --> surprise at worlds --> get even more addicted and post stupid things on forums --> win euros and worlds --> wake up after falling asleep in a tournament...

ftfy

  • mo.jpg

_______________________________________________________________
El Vaquilla hubiese jugado Bike Polo.

Thanks for the work, and good luck for handling all this shit. Some people here know how hard this shit is.

But some critics here are just logical.
Clearly you can't stand that Organizers deserve a slot if you want to make it the most competitive tourney.
Seattle is a bad exemple, the tourney was highly inclusive and with a lot of teams, so it sounds logical that nobody complain about a slot for organizers.

im not sayin' that a city who organize such a big event don't deserve a special treatment in spot allocating, but just saying that you can't be so rough with 7 countries by closing the discussion about slots allocation with point about competitivity and then drop this point when people are using them against you.
Clearly, if i come to the best competitive tourney you could offer, i don't give a fuck about playing the 4 or 5th parisian team who can't go trought national qualiflyer. If their level is not good enough, then they don't have to be in the main tourney. period.

I agree with Helmet and some post above. Yes i want the best tourney and play the best polo. Yes I think the way you choose spot allocation by working hard on last results and survey is a good way to make it. Your way to calculate is probably well done, but you can't talk to people as if it's science. Your are talking as if that's sure that the first austria team can't beat the 6th swiss team. This is probable but not sure...

Plus, as alejandro said, forcing people to organize big international qualflyer 4 months before is really hard.

We don't know, maybe each big country (maybe but France for some reason, as level, organizing et..), agree to give up one slot. We can't know before asking.

i agree for all the other stuff. 48 is perfect number. Wild card in Rouen 2 days before is awesome. Highly competitive polo is the way I and a lot of people around see European Champs.
My olny point is forcing country to make regional is kind of crappy.

Just for your notice, I'll explain you the way french qualification works. We had last WE a prequalification tournament in Lyon with 16 teams from all over the France. Then the Top 8 from this tournament goes to Rouen for the Euro qualifiers. The top 8 from Lyon is playing with the 5 best french teams from last season, + 1 team for Rouen for organising it.

In Rouen those 14 teams will play a round robin, then the top 8 will be qualified for the Euros. So basicaly some team will have to cross France twice to get a qualification for the Euros or the wildcard. So we exactely know wich kind of sacrifice it represent to organise regional because we asked our teams to play 2 tournaments.

Concerning the country with a lot of slots, none of them at the moment offered to give some of their slots. So if you guys in Switzerland are ready for giving one let us know, we're looking for one at the moment to open a second wildcard tournament and have 2 slots to win in each tournament.

.greg

im not talking for germany as a whole,
but i would totally be willing to give a slot for the main tournament if i can get a slot in the wildcard for example.
playing another 2 days is awesome and i would be glad to do this in rouen just to travel over and go on playing in paris...

all in all, perhaps for the next years, the bigger communities could be given more spots for wild card tournament instead of more spots in the main tournament... like that, nearly every country can have a team in the main tournament and those teams that would have taken their spots (the 6th, 7th of germany for example) could qualify in the wildcard if they are able....
it might weaken the main tournament by a bit but then again it would strengthen the qualifier... and it would be more inclusive, which, up to a certain point, is an awesome thing for the euros

PoLopOlOPoLopOlOPoLopOlOPoLopOlO

I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of the allocation of spots for EHBPC.

The big lesson of this is that European polo needs to get organised, so that we can sort this out in a more dignified way, rather than just a few of us squabbling on the internet.

As usual, Europe is way behind London (LHBPA est 2009) and N America.

Europe, please can you sort it out, Clement put out feelers yonks ago, but we / you didn't follow through, and the result is this bedlam. We need an EHBPA.

It is true that EUROPE needs to get organised quick. But I'm sorry to say that you cannot say something like

"As usual, Europe is way behind London (LHBPA est 2009) and N America."

How can you compare the organisation of A CITY like london to organising polo at a CONTINENTAL level ??
- You guys have an association in your city ? good for you, I'm pretty sure every polo playing city has one.
- You guys managed to put a League together. Benelux is doing this by combyning at least 2 or 3 COUNTRIES, There are 2 to 3 leagues only in France that combines different cities.

You guys are always talking about LONDON, but you can't even get organised at a Country level, we never ear "ENGLAND commitee thinks this, or that". What is so United about your Kingdom right now ?

I think it is really important if we want to build a european commitee that every one starts thinking Europe as a WHOLE. I know that this slot allocation is rising a lot of opinions, and I think it's really good, this is the kind of feedback (as long as it stays constructive and calm) that allows Polo to grow so fast.

and just for the record, there's always been this kind of problem around euros-slot allocation:

2009 in London: Registration was "First come First served", we have to remember that polo was not as big at the time, but a lot of teams where complaining about the fact that "Little" teams could register first taking the spots of "BIG" teams (the one that had been playing longer actually)

2010 in GVA: Slot allocation was CITY BASED, a city like london got 4 spots, city of Paris only got 3 spots making DTGP out and allowing new cities to send one team instead that had never been to a "BIG" tournament before.(DTGP ended up 9th at WHBPC the same year)

2011 in BARCA: Slots are allocated by country this time, it was the biggest EHBPC to date allowing something like 70 teams to come. People had still to fight because Italy had too many slots etc...

and the last thing i'd like to add: Benelux is a combination of 3 countries, they are way more central on the european polo map than PACHC. Wich means we can see them at tournaments more often than PACHC teams, regardless of that, they were always grouped last year, had to organise qualifiers for this area, and it's still the case this year. But you don't ear them complain about how no one is considering them in EUROPE and how they feel left behind. This is just a way of allocating spots to countries that it's not easy to give one each, and you should see it as a way of getting more slots for you, you're no longer fighting over 1 spot, but 3.

For the record, I also think you were out of line here Bill.

London/UK has as much of a part to play in realising the EHBPA as any other city/country and it is mostly my fault for not keeping the EHBPA wheels turning post-Barcelona last year.

JonoMarshall wrote:

For the record, I also think you were out of line here Bill.

London/UK has as much of a part to play in realising the EHBPA as any other city/country and it is mostly my fault for not keeping the EHBPA wheels turning post-Barcelona last year.

You're right, I was out of order. Feels nice to troll here, after getting trolled though :-)

I think we all of us in Europe are as much to blame as each other.

I think it's probably only Bill that feels that way, and I think he meant to say Hackney anyway.

NERG!

woods wrote:

It is true that EUROPE needs to get organised quick. But I'm sorry to say that you cannot say something like

"As usual, Europe is way behind London (LHBPA est 2009) and N America."

How can you compare the organisation of A CITY like london to organising polo at a CONTINENTAL level ??
- You guys have an association in your city ? good for you, I'm pretty sure every polo playing city has one.
- You guys managed to put a League together. Benelux is doing this by combyning at least 2 or 3 COUNTRIES, There are 2 to 3 leagues only in France that combines different cities.

You guys are always talking about LONDON, but you can't even get organised at a Country level, we never ear "ENGLAND commitee thinks this, or that". What is so United about your Kingdom right now ?

Ha! It's not my Kingdom, it's Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, and we are merely her subjects. :-)

Ok, so I was trolling a little, but I am frustrated that Europe, and the UK, England etc haven't gotten organised before now. I am proud of what London has achieved in terms of organising ourselves, though.

We, in London, have been trying to get the rest of England, Scotland & Wales* to come into an association since 2009, without any success until the last month or so. It is not for London to represent England et al, or Europe, not would I, or anyone else in London wish to.

Seriously, we in Europe don't need to get organised quick, we need to get organised well.

*As far as I know, there isn't polo in Ulster / Northern Ireland.

France is organised as well, with a 7 members comitee, elected in september for a year.

I guess polo should be properly nationaly organised befor being europeanly organised ?

Paris is organised but more like in a Club. The aim of the Club is giving the best condition to parisian players to play some good and fun polo all year long and helping the players interested in playing tournaments (I would say 70-80%) to be competitive in those tournaments.

.greg

Buffalo Bill wrote:

*As far as I know, there isn't polo in Ulster / Northern Ireland.

there's one guy who plays in derry, who comes down to us in dublin every other week.

Geee... A lot has been said, most of it pretty fair (especially thumbs up to Jono and to "elitist bullshit".)

One last note. I think the Euros shouldn't be of a decision of a single person/community. For example, LO is an open tournament, but it's a "private" tournament and the organizer can decide whom to invite etc. Euros should not be exclusive to anyone in Europe. Of course, "bigger" countries can get more spots, and it can be proportionate, but everyone within the continent should be given a chance.

BTW, I never thought granting spots to organizers was a bad thing.I think it's a fair thing and they deserve it. I went through that myself just recently :) It's just, It would be more fair to see that it's not Poland, Ireland or Hungary that suffer because of that.

stan.baranski wrote:

Geee... A lot has been said, most of it pretty fair (especially thumbs up to Jono and to "elitist bullshit".)

One last note. I think the Euros shouldn't be of a decision of a single person/community. For example, LO is an open tournament, but it's a "private" tournament and the organizer can decide whom to invite etc. Euros should not be exclusive to anyone in Europe. Of course, "bigger" countries can get more spots, and it can be proportionate, but everyone within the continent should be given a chance.

BTW, I never thought granting spots to organizers was a bad thing.I think it's a fair thing and they deserve it. I went through that myself just recently :) It's just, It would be more fair to see that it's not Poland, Ireland or Hungary that suffer because of that.

Quoted just to say, that there are other countries on the wrong side of this concept,
not only those 3 you've mentioned.

stan.baranski wrote:

Geee... A lot has been said, most of it pretty fair (especially thumbs up to Jono and to "elitist bullshit".)

One last note. I think the Euros shouldn't be of a decision of a single person/community. For example, LO is an open tournament, but it's a "private" tournament and the organizer can decide whom to invite etc. Euros should not be exclusive to anyone in Europe. Of course, "bigger" countries can get more spots, and it can be proportionate, but everyone within the continent should be given a chance.

BTW, I never thought granting spots to organizers was a bad thing.I think it's a fair thing and they deserve it. I went through that myself just recently :) It's just, It would be more fair to see that it's not Poland, Ireland or Hungary that suffer because of that.

Ok, desicion for 2012 is, maybe, finish.
But for 2013, PACH&Others should organize the EM and invite one country for one slot. Except the bigs ;-)

This is not a problem with France/Paris at all, this is a europen issue.
We need to start talking about EHBPC 2013 NOW with a rep from each country (Maybe the first informal meeting in paris?). A europen association should decide the slots not the hosting city.

I think 1 slot minimum per country would be a good start with teams having to qualify at a national tournament.

waaaaaahhhhh waaaaaahhhhh waaaaaahhhhhhh
Is this thread seriously a giant bitch session about <10% of the slots? Fuck you guys must be bored. Every year people bitch and moan about to the organizers of the euros and then the tournament is totally amazing. Imagine how the organisers are being mind-fucked dealing with Parisian bureaucracy getting this done, hell most of you guys dont need to imagine, you've done this shit already in yr hometowns. Im sure greg has better things to do than sit on the forum calming you guys down...umm, you do have a life dont you greg?

Just thank Greg, Hooks, Hugo, Marc and their friends and save your tears for when Marc checks you blind-side.

disclaimer: I have deliberately never done anything to organize anything and has not really read this thread

Really?

Of course the tournament will be awesome.

Unfortunately not everyone will be able to enjoy it (hence the problem).

People shouldn't be shouted down for voicing their frustrations, the spot allocation for 2012's event supports the status quo/larger scenes and you can't expect everyone else (smaller scenes) to be happy about that.

Many teams won't have a route to the Euros this year (despite being good enough), I'm sure they would love the opportunity to receive one of Marc's blind sides (nothing wrong with that).

The presumption that many "so so" teams from the larger scenes are better than the "A class" teams from Poland, Hungary, Ireland, etc, is pretty weak (and the results to date prove otherwise).

But as you were, it's been made pretty clear that Paris is standing their ground.

+1

Thanks

JonoMarshall wrote:

Really?

Of course the tournament will be awesome.

hahahahah
great

The result is random the performance No

JonoMarshall is a fine example of what the European spirit is suposed to be.

Ladies and Gentlemen the PACHC website is OPEN
http://euroqualifier.wordpress.com/

I dont mean to restir the pot with my first post on lobp but....

Paris are looking to promote the best quality polo possible.

so....a Hungarian team wins the Madrid Open this weekend, after another Hungarian team comes 3rd in the first UK national series tournament of the season, after repping hard (coming in the top 20) at the 2011 Euros. Yet they get no automatic spots for their country, having technically proven that they are better than all the Spanish Teams (5 spots, 3wildcard) and would almost certainly qualify in the UK (7 spots 3 w/c) qualifiers. They have to compete for 3 automatic spots between 4 completely different national polo scenes (Poland are apparently fairly strong too but they have to travel for a slim chance of qualification). No explanation given about this by Paris other than 'deal with it, we won't change our minds for anyone' and greg rudely saying 'stop talking, go training'. Charming. Well they have, and they just might beat you.

The Irish came 17th in the last euros, which for a small scene is pretty good. Yet they are lumped together with a completely separate polo scene if they want to qualify with no spot of their own.

Greg etc talk about how polo should be nationally organised yet fail to represent polo on a national level with their allocations, instead doing it on a regional level (France is well represented nationally though with 9!!!! spots and 4!!! w/c). No real explanation other than they are looking for quality which as we can see with the Hungarian and Irish examples has been proved not to be the case.

Not to mention the non-wild 'wildcard' tournament with only 4 spots for qualification in another town. On a personal level I was completely gutted about this decision as I had decided last year to make sure i would go and play in the wildcard for this years euros and check out/heckle the big guns if i didnt qualify which I will of course try to with my team. I know I am not alone in feeling like this and Paris have effectively told players like me (and entire country's scenes) that we are not good enough to even merit their company.

I totally agree that we need an EHBPA and that it should make these decisions. The goal of the Euros has always been to fairly represent the European polo community while getting the best possible quality within that mindset. The focus of the 2012 Euros have been arbitrarily and completely changed by Paris from what came before. Surely the decision to change the focus should be for the EHBPA, whenever that is formed, not one European city despite the credit that they certainly deserve for being the only people to step up to the plate and host this year. This is much more like the Paris Invitational 2012 so it should be called that or Paris should realise their error and do some reallocation like barca did.

probably tl:dr and some is repeated from other posts,
just sayin...

I won't argue that Hungary deserve a spot but calling the last two tournament as an argument is weak since Paris as no clue about this resluts when allocating the spot (Marty Mcfly anyone?) and the allocation is based of last year results.

My point is that these latest results prove how flawed Paris' allocation of spots are. I would say that this was very foreseeable if they had allocated spots bearing in mind previous results. If they had just given every scene a chance of qualification then this wouldent even be an issue and there wouldent be a danger of not having one of the best teams in europe (from hungary) at the tournament because their spot was taken by a second rate french team. Oh well.....

+1

I'd like to, again, express full support towards giving Hungary their own spot. Even without the recent wins ( congrats, btw )

Hay paris any updates about euros would be much appreciated Thanks ...

Hi all,

So qualifiers start to be organised and played accross Europe, so for people who want to book tickets, here are the infos concerning the dates.

Euro will be played on Friday and Saturday (20-21 May July).

Wildcard will be played the thursday (19 May July). At the moment it's a single 16 teams tournament in Rouen (Top 3 going to the Euros). But we just a found a way to make a playable but small court in Paris (16x32m). So we will check that soon but we might be able to organise 2 tournaments ( 12 teams each, Top 2 qualified to the Euros).

Come back to you very soon and we'll creat a new topic.

++

.greg

MAY?!?!?!?!?!

20-21 make Friday and Saturday in July, so this got to be a mistake.

*relieved*

what about sunday, nothing going on?

Rik
Zaragoza Bike Polo 2015
Berlin Bike Polo 2010 - 2015
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

They adopt the Johan from ponies schedule : dont fuck your final day by rushing to the airport on evening and miss all the fun stuff! Satursday night fever. Worlds in gva gonna be the same.

Yes July, sorry. I can't edit my message, Don't know why.

.greg

Will be nice some information with teams already qualified !
Thanks in advance :)

Im sure paris will soon open a dedicated topic, right gregouy?

can boston get a spot? we're pretty good. thanks greg.

lol, maybe next time. not even europeans got spots.

The Bisons;

We'll make you play a qualifiying tournament with australia, maroco and taiwan to decide who get the spot. Just because we like people to travel. ;o)

.greg

hahh, nice one :D

The Bisons;

Please David stop bullshitting, it becomes really boring. If you don't respect EHBPC organisation, don't come.
What did you want? An automatic slot for your strong team The Bisons?
I don't know any team automatically qualified for any official competition (yes Crazy Canucks for WHBPC but it's not our business, NA decision for 1 of their 16 slots and shit they are World Champs so why not).
Everybody had to drive a lot and pay for that to go to play qualies.

CALL ME DADDY

I wasn't bullshitting, I was stating facts.

The Bisons;

Two questions:
- At this moment, What teams have qualified for the euros and for the wildcard in each region?

- My team has qualified for the wildcard, you know if the wildcard is in Rouen or Paris, I say that to go looking for somewhere to sleep in Paris or Rouen?

Thank you!

(from east-central europe region.)

qualified for EUROS:
- The Bisons /Hun/
- Apollo3 /Pol/
- MMA /Pol/

qualified for WILDCARD:
- Banana Thieves /Aut/
- Tora Tora Tora /Pol/
- Bloody Brown Bears /Rom/

Polosapiens
Duna

Can we please get an official EHBPC 2012 thread going?
Many, many players are asking for info.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Mr.Carrillo wrote:

Can we please get an official EHBPC 2012 thread going?
Many, many players are asking for info.

Yes, please. The day is getting closer and we don't know how is everything going to be, Could you please give us more information? Thanks

UK/Ireland qualifier results below.

Euros spots:
1. Spring Break
2. Nice Touch
3. Gettin wild
4. Yea Baby
5. Dead Rappers
6. Cosmic
7. Wooden Skulls

"Wildcard" spots:
8. Rat Trap
9. Passed It
10. Le BigMac

In case anyone is wondering how Cosmic ended up 6th, Snoops wasn't able to play (out of country), so Ben (punkture) was sub. In the 8 or 9th game of round-robin, Todd sustained a serious injury (hit a post, major soft-tissue trauma to the shoulder, prognosis 6-8 weeks), and they finished their games with Zoe, who some of you will know as one of the London Sirens.

Hi guys I'll create a proper topic this week. Concerning the teams already qualified, the better way is people, published the lists here cause, exept few country we did not receive the results of the qualifiers.

.greg

Benelux euro spots:
Guacapolo (brussels)
Simon Says (antwerp)
EHVFXD (Eindhoven)

Wildcard spots:
Team Fishsticks (antwerp)

Greg said during the discussion as his last statement (post #142) that Benelux will get 1 wildcard spot more than just this one, because Switzerland renounce one of his spots, fair enough.

But that was ages ago and probably in the case Paris manage to organize two wild card tournaments, so still wa-a-a-aiting for confirmation, like anybody else. (*baille*)

I confirm you guys will have 2 slots for wildcard.

.greg

Thanks Greg, to be honest, I didn't expected sthg else, "tu n'as qu'une parole", bravo.
We'll give you the name of the team and of the players ASAP, but maybe on a proper Euros2012-thread? ;)
Good luck for further preparations and FHBPC in Avoriaz. See ya next month in Paris. Cheers!

Iberic euro spots:
1. El Club
2. Dirty Sanchez
3. Vai Polo Rejo
4. los manguis
5. Ratapolofía

Wildcard spots:
1. Sexy Legs
2. Los Defensores

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

France :

1. Call Me Daddy (Paris / Toulouse)
2. Hooks (Rouen)
3. Cocorico (Paris)
4. Ma Couille (Bordeaux)
5. Shaft Punk (Toulouse)
6. Les Chacals (Paris)
7. Les Chevals (Perpignan)
8. Hells Prospect. (Paris)

------

9. Goal Diggers (Paris)
10. Mum Lovers (Nantes / Montpelier)
11. Smoked Meat (Bordeaux) or Gold (Rouen)

.greg

Suisse

1. L'Equipe
2. Iron Ponies
3. Moteur Fuckers
4. Sophie
5. Les Vieux Fritz
6. JPG

Qualified for Wild Card Tournament in Rouen:

7. Uiguiguigu

here results from Italy

1.TIGERS
2.MALAFORCA
3.ROCKETS
4.SEAGULLS
5.BAM

Qualified for Wild Card Tournament:
RODE
TORINO BP

Any news on the wildcard date and location, and which teams go where?

We really need to book our tickets asap.

John H wrote:

Any news on the wildcard date and location, and which teams go where?

We really need to book our tickets asap.

Yes, please!

I create the topic today or tomorow I just need some elements but I can already give you the main informations.

As you already now Euro will be in Paris on Friday and Saturday (20-21 July).

Wildcard will be organised in Paris on Thursday (19 July). 20 teams will fight for 3 slots to play the Euros.
The wildcard tournament will take place at Invalides where we played the MGM Jungle tournament last year. We'll try to make 2 courts, but at the moment we only got 1 officially.

This will start early so team playing this tournament should try to arrive in Paris on wednesday ev or thursday really early.

Concerning the Euro, friday will be played on swiss round, with 2 or 3 groups (Morning / Afternoon or Morning / Mid Day / Late aftenoon). Top 32 will be qualified for saturday double elimination bracket.

Sorry about no creating a proper topic earlier it'll be done for sure by the end of the week.

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.greg

Thanks Greg.

Finaly :

http://leagueofbikepolo.com/ehbpc2012

.greg