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Midwest Regional Qualifier - Madison, WI May 19-20

Saturday, May 19, 2012 - Sunday, May 20, 2012
Host club: 
Madison

Madison will be hosting the Midwest Qualifier this Spring. We will have 32 spots that will be allotted by active cities in the region. Information on how these spots will be allocated will be announced in this thread.

Location

Madison, WI
United States

Signed up

Yes!

321polo.net

it has been decided.

thank you madison!

How will the team selection process affect out of region teams that would like to go

well, if we don't fill up with automatic bids then there will be some out of town spots but the last midwest tournament had 46 or so teams and we only have 32 spots for this tournament so i'm not sure how likely it is to have any out of town spots available.

Well that's lame

Its lame that there are already more then enough teams that want to play in the midwest qualifier? I'm not disagreeing that it is fun to travel but i think that priority should be given within the region.

That's going to be the case whether Madison allocates spots somehow, uses Hardcourtbikepolo.org/NAH registration, or comes up with some hybrid/other system. Midwest Qualifier had 43 in-region teams last year. If it's 32 teams max this year, you would have to expect that all 32 spots would be taken during the priority in-region registration week under the Hardcourtbikepolo.org system.

yup, exactly.

Last year the initial 32 team registration for MW9 filled up in 22 SECONDS.

internet-clicky-race is not a effective method of allocating spots, especially in a region as deep as the midwest.

excellent. We will accept our fate of getting, or not getting allocated a spot with grace and/or booze.

'bout time. Can't wait.

You'll see. Unless you drilled out your eyes because they were too heavy.

pls have your main contact email me or ben schultz regarding the allocation of teams/city as this is NOT standard methodology for all tournaments in the NAH tour and since this is a tour tournament we need to discuss this aspect of it.

"Forward!" -WI

Chandel, you're talking to Madison here, correct? As in you just want Madison's main contact to reach you, not every MW cities' main contact, right?

Two courts?

depends

Thank you, Madison!

Allotment by active cities? Oh my, this can only end in tears.
I'm going to book this off work tomorrow. Can I just confirm that winnipeg is an "active city"?

(Also: i'm really stoked for this. Thanks for stepping up madison.)

winnepeg is active, menomonie, wi is not. get it?

Cheers to the Midwest for not getting all knee-jerk about this. A 32-team limit is the (very gracious, thanks MAD) hand we're dealt and we're going to make the best of it.

Club reps: expect one of the regional reps to get ahold of you in the next 24-48 in order to come to consensus.

Thanks all.

An email has been sent to all MW club reps. Please respond within 48 hours.

pretty sure zach rueter is our club rep and he quit bike polo for the foreseable future, please fwd it to me thanks.

I realized I do not have access to the email address I had posted. I have updated my email to Tvhoehn@gmail.com, which is my primary email. Would you please forward the message to my new email address. Thanks.

so how does midwest not have to conform their qualifier to NAH regulations?

because 3v3 is so over

because "internet-clicky-race" is a poor way to select teams. earning your spot makes much more sense (just like how regionals feed into NA's).

Zachary-Blmgtn wrote:

because "internet-clicky-race" is a poor way to select teams.

yes, we all know this. nevertheless this an NAH qualifying event that is not complying with NAH qualifying event standards. all the other qualifiers have followed the rules. my question is why is this one different?

sending options to all the club reps for the players in the region to decide seems like a fairly democratic way to non-conform.

What he is getting at is there is no open registration like every other tournaument in the nah qualifiers, meaning only in region teams, I think it is pretty lame cause if there were no out of regions at the SW tourny I would be qualified and not bitching

The registration process hasn't been announced yet.

maybe i'm seeing things. at the top of the page it says "We will have 32 spots that will be allotted by active cities in the region"

Every NAH tournament in 2012 had a one week window for in-region teams to sign up, then it opened for everyone. Last year there were 43 in-region teams at the Midwest event, and since there is only 32 spots this year, the chances of there being any out of region spots left after a week are zero.

cuz MW is the best

The Midwest regional reps are responding to an unforeseen issue, a limit of 32 teams.

The purpose of these qualifiers is to filter the best teams to NA's. Midwest has a substantial number of clubs and active players. Unlike previous years, the city willing to throw the tourney (MAD) in 2012 has stipulated a 32-team limit. While this might suffice for some regions, this limit presents a significant problem for a region that in 2011 registered the first 32 in-region teams in 22 seconds.

As Jouche points out, out-of-region teams would be the only teams affected by this adaptation, and only after a one-week in-region only registration. Based on the evidence, it's fairly clear that all spots will be filled by the initial in-region registry.

We are complying with the NAH registration system we are just adding some parameters to allow deal with a limited number of spaces. Its not like we are not letting out of region teams to register if we don't fill our spots after one week it is just that we are creating another system within the NAH rules to deal with limited court space.

Zachary-Blmgtn wrote:

because "internet-clicky-race" is a poor way to select teams. earning your spot makes much more sense (just like how regionals feed into NA's).

Depends on the goal. Goals of a registration system for an NAH tournament include club representation and the highest level of competition, but also ease of operation, fairness, transparency, impartiality. An internet race-to-register is easy to use, fair (everyone knows the rules that apply to their team, whether in-region or out), transparent (everyone get to see the time-stamps), and impartial (the rules that exist are applied by operation, 100% consistently). It might not be the systems that best balances the goals for a midwest NAH tournament limited to 32-teams. But it is also not a "poor way to select teams" for most of the qualifiers, and its not a bad resource to have so easily available.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that when we all first foresaw the possibility of hugely over-registered tournaments, the race-to-register was appealing to most people based on fairness, transparency, and impartiality, in comparison to letting the host city decide who got in and who didn't. Keep in mind, that was before we had fixed regional boundaries, a system of designated club reps, regional reps and board members, or any uniformity in the calendar or registration rules. We've come a long way in a few years. If we were trying to deal with the number of teams there are now with the level of "organization" there was in 2008 or 2009 -- that -- would be chaos. In comparison, this registration issue is a hiccup, at the very most.

Poster has been updated.

You misspelled champeens.

I was so pumped until I realized that its the same day as graduation. Fudge.

But I'm glad that Madison stepped up. I'll be following on podium.

If you can dream it, you can do it!

noooo! but dance party!

Dope poster

Bike Polo Ronin

I see where tex is coming from, but unfortunately right now NAH isn't throwing any tournaments its up to clubs to host. Our expectations for courts are ten times what they used to be which means they cost more money to build. Long story short we are lacking a facility with 4 pre built courts. This tournament was close to not even happening so we are working with the hand we are delt. In whole this season is going to be pretty weak for traveling to tournaments for everyone.

140x65

.kremin. wrote:

we are lacking a facility with 4 pre built courts.

yeah. who isn't? and yet all the other NAH qualifying events were able to accomodate out of region teams, as is required for NAHBPC qualification

The only accommodation required is that after a one-week region-only registration, each region must open it's tournament to all comers. Should the MW in-region registration fail to fill all 32 spots, out-of-region teams will be allowed to register.

Regional qualifiers are not required to satisfy regional capacity and also guarantee spaces for out-of-region teams. Which is to say, if the 2012 MW qualifier capacity was 48 and it filled during region-only registration, there would also be no space for out-of-region teams.

If the spots are allotted to active cities, Does this mean that you have to play on a team with people from your own club? At last year's Midwest qualifier I played with Birdie and Maija. So my team was made of Chicago, Milwaukee, Toronto. I'm assuming that this would be acceptable team under the "2/3" rule, however, is that one of Chicago's spots or one of Milwaukee's? Will there be a certain amount of spots allotted for non-intercity in region teams?

This doesn't effect me this year, as I plan to play on a team of all Chicago players, but I doubt that I was or will be the only person in this situation. I see it as detrimental to the level of competition to require people to draw from their local talent pools. It's also not very fair for people deciding to play with people from other cities to take a potential spot away from their locals.

Tex if you want to play at this tournament, find two in-region people to play with. Use the "2/3" to your advantage. Outsourcing talent will only bump up the level of competition, and make the tournament more fun and challenging

we haven't even announced the system yet so there isn't an answer yet.

I'd rather add my 2 cents before it's been decided, because afterwards all you can do is bitch about it. I just want to make sure that this is being looked at as more complicated than just giving spots to cities.

agreed and this is the most important part of the system that is being hashed out with club reps right now.

UPDATE:

Option 1 (described below) was the overwhelming preference by MW clubs reps for filling the 32 spots at the MW qualifier.

The details:

  • There are an estimated 21 clubs in the MW expected to submit a team for the club allocations.
  • There are an estimated 11 remaining spots, which will be reserved for "at-large" MW team submissions. To be clear: At-large teams are essentially established, recognized teams and/or multi-club teams with a very strong record that have earned a spot based on skill, past performance, etc. During the first week of in-region only registration, these at-large teams must constitute 2/3 MW players.
  • Registration will open to in-region teams on Monday, April 9th at 12 pm. All team submissions - for club and "at-large" allotments - must be sent to midweststeering@gmail.com
  • As of Monday April 16th at 12 pm, registration will be open to ALL regions. These submissions should also be sent to the email address above.
  • IMPORTANT: In either case, do NOT submit a team before the official opening of registration. Early submissions will be rejected.
  • Submissions should include the city of origin, team name, and the full names of each team member.

MW clubs are strongly encouraged to, if possible, use this week to establish their club team spot. Likewise, for all MW at-large teams.

This is essentially what I suggested (second bullet) last year to help run the 2012 tour.... and quantitatively describing this.

http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/tournaments/2011/11/06/2012-nah-qualif...

With all respect, this is outrageous. It is evident that the aim is to ensure that the 'best' teams are able to compete, and I understand and acknowledge the motivation behind that. What I can't get behind is that you are changing the rules in the middle of the game. What does that say of the integrity of NAH when you are willing to institute some sort of ad hoc merit system that is blatantly exclusive? Who is choosing which method to employ? Club reps? Isn't that a conflict of interest?

This is a very unfortunate situation, to say the least, and I sympathize with those that have to resolve it. Having too many people that want to play their hearts out is a great problem to have, but it is still a problem. Requiring teams to earn their way into a qualifier is an obvious answer, but teams can't prove that they are deserving when there is no objective system in place to do so, let alone prove it retroactively when they weren't aware that they would eventually have to.

There is, however, a system that every other qualifier has used already this season. This system was agreed upon for 2012, and it plays no favorites. By all means, push through a tiered system (club, state, region, continent) of qualification for 2013 so that organizers can run whatever size tournament that they deem manageable with full confidence that they are advancing the most competitive participants of their tournament.

For now, I can't see how you could pull off this subjective evaluation and allotment process without undermining NAH as a whole. The people making this decision can not also be the ones with the most to gain by controlling the outcome.

It sounds like your fear is that the merit based system is going to be more about something other than finding people with good polo skills and experience. I don't think that's a legitimate fear.

That said, exclusivity is inevitable when you have restrictions on tournament size and an ever-increasing player base. And it definitely sucks when more teams who expected to play don't get to.

Let me clarify. I absolutely agree with why they want to do this, but I do not agree with doing it before the final qualifier of the season. I think that it sets a horrible precedent. For instance, it would be awful if the Beaver Boys were team #33 in a clicky-race registration... how could you say that the best team won when one of the best teams out there didn't compete? I just don't think that suddenly imposing a judgment system is the right solution, especially not one that will seemingly occur behind closed doors.

I agree with you about the inevitability of it all. I personally believe that qualifiers are too overwhelmingly large for organizers to have to handle and that a bottom-up qualifying system is probably overdue. I know that we're all working this out together step by step and that it can't be perfect immediately, but if we're all going to abide by a system, we can't selectively ignore it when a problem arises.

So what you are saying is you would rather have an internet race where a city, from the Midwest, could have a chance of having zero representation at this event?

Would you be satisfied if the the Eastside event was 32 teams and Pittsburgh didn't get one single player entered?

In short, yes, I would be fine with that.

If every other qualifier had used that system and I missed a spot at my qualifier because it ran out of room before I could register, I would have to swallow that pill because that is the system that I was voluntarily participating in. If the system is failing you, it isn't the proper course of action to retroactively judge teams' worth and exclude the 'unworthy'. If the system is broken, fix it, but that doesn't give way to playing God with participation entitlement.

It would suck if team #33 was a real powerhouse, but what about team #49 in a 48 team tournament? What if they would make it a more competitive tournament? Fixing the problem we face with Midwests with a hand of God approach just isn't right.

The main point being, the Midwest can field 32 very competitive teams.

The Midwest can not, however, field 48 very competitive teams.

Thats the root of the problem. A problem we solved with a solution that was all but unanimous.

This tournament will fill up with In-Region teams. Guaranteed.

I am all for it being Midwest only, whether by design (which I support) or by it never reaching the 'open to all' phase of registration because of in region demand. Same goes for each qualifier. Eastern Conference teams don't get to the playoffs through the Western Conference standings. We are facing the inevitable collision of growing participation and logistical sustainability. It sucks leave things to chance in this situation, but it sucks more to tell your peers that you deserve to go more than they do when the season had no evaluation process in place to do so objectively.

And the nearly unanimous decision is questionable, as well. I can't not have doubts about reps making the call when they are the ones most likely to benefit. I am not pointing fingers or crying 'conspiracy!' but I absolutely wouldn't entrust that decision to myself as Pittsburgh's club rep, especially as I am on the top traveling team. It is a conflict of interest... integrity and democracy against personal wishes and entitlement.

Would you not ask your club their opinion?

I absolutely would, and I wasn't accusing anyone of neglecting to do so, either. Perhaps this is where I am going wrong, but I cannot see how any non-rep player or any not best-in-their-city team would agree to this potential fix wholeheartedly. I never voluntarily withheld my registration because I didn't think that I was good enough to be somewhere. If people did that, this problem wouldn't exist, right?

Maybe I am doing a lot of speaking up for people that won't do so for themselves, or maybe I am doing all of this wavemaking for people that don't exist.

The decision was left up to the club reps but with the suggestion to include your club in the decision making. I took a survey of all my club members (who could respond within 48 hours) and even our club was unanimous. When 12 people here all think the same thing, and almost every club comes to the same conclusion, I think we can let this issue go.

No it's not perfect, and I think the powers-that-be realize this and have a system planned out. So let's not have nitpicky arguments and just see what happens.

I am not just trying to pick nits or ruffle feathers, but I agree that if this is what the people want, give it to them.

When will we know if we are in or out? Need to arrange flights, thanks.

Registration closes soon, Midwest. Get your club and at large bids emailed pronto!

ogad...

slayers are only slayers if the slay out of town...

I am also sympathetic to how difficult this situation will be to deal with. It's why I tried to start this conversation a month ago in the who will host thread and why I've advocated for a promotion and relegation system in polo for years.

The complaint I want to lodge/observation I want to make, as respectfully as I can, is this: the system you have proposed is not merit-based. After the quota is filled with one team from each city, the remaining 11 or so teams will essentially be a draft. Players who have top eighted at NAH events last year (I am making this requirement up as an example of one that could be used) will either seek each other out or be pursued to join what would otherwise have been the second team to come from one city. It makes this year's qualification effort essentially a playoff based on last year's record, a situation no one knew would be in play when they were putting teams together or moving around this year.

Let's look at MKE as an example. Both the gaurdians and the beaver boys have top eighted at majors last year. Should one be the MKE quota team and one the "merit"? Or would they both qualify as "merit" teams and a third club team gets the quota slot, making Milwaukee the most represented club at the tournament. Is that fair?

Have all 21 of the active Midwest clubs been surveyed, vetted, ranked? I appreciate the effort to include everyone, but you are essentially making this an 11 team 'A' tournament with 21 filler teams. Is there not enough time for each club to play it's two nearest neighbors and set a qualification system with this year's teams?

Retired.

wardens not guardians. it is not an 11 team A tounrament with 21 filler teams becasue cities will hopefully send thier best team from their city then submit their other teams for review. Yes milwuakee has more good teams than some cities so if we were to do a pre-qualifier with say state of WI, GB would most likely not get a spot at all in this tourneament and madison and milwaukee would get how ever many spaces each state gets alloted, perhaps even just milwaukee would win all the spots. so whats more fair? one city getting all the spots or equally distrubtuing by city?

Fair is sticking with the horse that got you here. Who could deny Milwaukee's embarassment of riches? I mean no harm in using you guys as the example. There are certainly a number of MKE teams there that anyone would agree are contenders. In a perfect world, there would be room for all of them without fear of missing the cutoff. The same goes for every interested team, but whether everyone in polo can agree that MKE (or Chicago, or Madison, etc) rolls deep or not, the fact remains that you can't just pull the rug out from under everyone that stands to be subjectively excluded without destroying the integrity of the governing body.

The first come first served system isn't merit-based either.

This system does maintain a balance between geographic representation and skill, which mimics the system for qualifying more generally for NAHBPC.

If the best players from each city, not counting the 11 "at large" teams, end up taking the 21 spots, then i think this may be the best example of how to hit that balance. It's unfortunate this wasn't figured out before the tour started, i guess everyone expected a host with 3 courts.

No where in the rules does it say we have to have our registration system happen by first come first serve. That was precedent that was started last year. We are working within the NAH rules for registration we are just setting more parameters for the system that was set in place.

The system that was set up will not be controversial because teams within region would likely self regulate anyway. If you only have 32 places then i think it is logical that fewer teams would form from multiple cities and players who don't take the sport as serious. We will have 32 competitive teams at this tournament but that is really the max amount that are competitive in the region. I don't think what we are doing will displace anyone and that point is being proven by how few complaints we are getting from midwest teams.

As far as merit and selection goes there is so much data available now that it won't be hard at all to pick these teams using a systematic and quantitative method.

Jonny, I certainly meant none of this as a personal attack on you, Madison, NAH, the Midwest, and anyone involved in making this overwhelmingly difficult decision. I am sure that the clubs will work amongst themselves to arrive at a rational decision for team selection, but everyone's ability to negotiate isn't my concern. My concern is the principle of it all. People will be slighted by decisions made by others. The accepted way of doing things is being pushed aside. That just doesn't sit right with me.

Like I said in a comment above this, if this is what the people want, who am I to keep being a pain in your ass about it?

"The accepted way of doing things is being pushed aside. That just doesn't sit right with me."
If by "accepted way" you mean NAH parameters, then we're in compliance and it's all good.

But if by "accepted way" you mean we should be using a "internet-clicky-race" to decide our slots, well that's where all the midwest club reps disagree with you. If the we did first come first serve for only 32 slots it would be an absolute shitshow... hell, last year we filled 36 slots in 22 seconds and we've grown bigger and more competitive since then. We're not trying to overturn the apple cart, we just wanna make sure our apples are as equitable and competitive as possible.

This is not at all surprising coming from a man that once pressured a tournament's organizers into switching their format in the middle of a Saturday, thereby eliminating half of the field from a bracket that they were told everyone would be a part of.

By accepted way, I obviously mean the way that everyone else has done it this season. I get that there has been some sort of consensus. I get that NAH doesn't dictate that there must me a first come, first served race to click a link. What I don't get is how anyone can allow this to spontaneously become a beauty pageant. I would love for every game at a qualifier to look like a final. I just don't want it to happen at the expense of camaraderie.

wow are you still sour about that? i didn't pressure anybody and it wasn't my call. columbus never decided on a format even when it was underway.. remember how they did three sets of double elimination in one day? their lack of planning was the problem. be mad at peter, be mad at sarah, or hell you couldve just won yr games... none of that is my fault. get over it.

now how exactly is this a beauty pageant? and how does this hurt "camaraderie"?

every city gets a seat at the table (there's yr camaraderie and equity), and at the same time this will INCREASE the level of competition by assuring the best teams are playing..

PS - i still like you lomax (even if you don't feel the same about me) and i really hope yr one of the outsiders vying for a spot in this tourney (via the 2/3 rule)

EVEN THE REFS ARE DROPPING THE GLOVES

To get it out of the way, there is no love lost in all of this. We can debate this as furiously as we'd like, and I would still grab beers with you any day of the week. And unfortunately, Madison is not in my calendar, 2/3's or not. Just can't swing it.

As for being sour, I'm not still grumbling, but that doesn't change that what happened was wrong. You're right, I could have won my games (if I wanted to play cutthroat polo at a relaxed, no-fear-of-relegation event), but I would have argued just as passionately for those that didn't make the cut because everyone was operating under the understanding that it was a two-day, everyone-advances-to-Sunday deal. Everyone that I berated about it pointed squarely at Bloomington as the driving force behind the midday decision to retroactively consider Saturday morning as qualification and to run Saturday afternoon as the bracket. I am over it, but rehashing it illustrates a marked interest in self-service.

Can we be honest with ourselves yet and admit that this drum beating about having the highest level of competition present at this tournament is the direct result of the top tier being afraid that they'll be team #33? I completely agree that it's a shitty situation to find yourself facing. That is still no reason to change the registration process and leave teams that are on the edge out in the cold. What if, when you were gearing up to register for whatever tournament that you feel like you made the leap from scrub to competitor, someone told you that you weren't ready for prime time? Your record before that tournament might not have looked so great on paper, but I bet that you made a lasting impression on some heavy hitters that weekend.

If restricting qualifiers on performance was of such paramount significance, that system would be in place already. Open registration tournaments have blissfully grown to the threshold of manageability, but now that someone has had to scale one back, the knee jerk reaction is to denounce the merit of the existing system that has worked fine for 6 other regions this season and employ an exclusive method of awarding participation. I am in no way advocating for the perpetuation of first-come, first-served registration. It has outlived its usefulness, and it is time that polo starts treating itself like a real sport BECAUSE IT IS ONE. We're it. No professional sport that I know of has an invitational playoff to determine their league champion. I'm with Kruse on immediately prioritizing the resolution of this issue, but it doesn't warrant leaving participation in the final qualifier up to a panel review when no other qualifier has done so.

That is how it is a beauty pageant... a steering committee will subjectively determine which teams look good enough to compete. Who knows, we might all agree with the list of eligible participants, but I don't see that being very likely with how complicated it will be to judge inconsistent trios and 2/3's teams. That hurts camaraderie. When you abandon an objective system for a subjective one that is so clearly biased, you do so in bad faith. No one wants a qualifier full of first-timer teams, especially not in a region as strong as the Midwest, but purposely cutting the fringe teams to reserve room for the top tier is bullying. When fringe teams have missed registration in the existing system, they didn't form a committee to take a little off of the top... they tried again the next time. The severity of this 'solution' makes it seem like everyone thinks, if 43 MW teams registered last year, that all 11 teams that miss the registration cut this year would have been in the top 12.

Edit: some grammar

I had suggested that we combine the two options. We can offer each active city one spot so as to guarantee representation and then offer the remaining spots to an internet registration race. I certainly don't think this would solve any problems but it goes back to the equal opportunity angle offered at other tournaments.

"If restricting qualifiers on performance was of such paramount significance, that system would be in place already."
NAH should've fixed all this last year. they didn't. nothing changed from 2011 to 2012. i wish they would've, but they didn't. nobody in the midwest wants to use a broken system simply to appease non-midwesterns. we want our championship to be a championship.

"No professional sport that I know of has an invitational playoff to determine their league champion."
Yup, they EARN their spot. it's not an Open (ie internetclickyrace) or an invite (specific teams invited) it's a CHAMPIONSHIP- you earn yr way in. Just like how worlds is decided. just like how NA's is decided. we're just bringing that system home to the Midwest.

"No one wants a qualifier full of first-timer teams, especially not in a region as strong as the Midwest, but purposely cutting the fringe teams to reserve room for the top tier is bullying."
Yup, which is why every club has a seat at the table. no one is cut off, everyone has a legit opportunity to make it. small clubs from from Mankato to Indy all will be able to send a team regardless of how awesome Milwaukee or Chicago is...

if this issue is that close to yr heart i would hope yr appealing to NAH just as much as you are in this thread. anyone who has a problem with the MW having "sectionals" need to seriously consider their take on "regionals". or World's distribution, for that matter.

that said, give me a call dude.

We kind of agree on point #1. That's a start. To clarify, I'm not looking to appease non-midwesterners, either. When this fills up with 32 MW teams, not only will I support that, but I hope that it starts a trend. If there was room for 48 teams, and they all ended up being from the MW, same deal.

I want every spot to be earned, too. It goes beyond what we want... it's the way that it should be without question. I'm not in favor of giving spots to kids off of the street. I am making all of this noise for something that I just can't seem to articulate. It's the principle. If you don't see it, I don't know if I can help you to recognize it. What you're are bringing home to the Midwest is flagrant elitism. I know that sports are about determining who is the best, but you are exploiting a(n admittedly enormous) hole in the description of how registration should take place to exclude people via a wholly impractical rubric. In a sport that (foolishly) decides continental championships with single games played to 5 points, anything can happen, regardless of how certain you are of one team being superior to the other. You just can't pass accurate judgment on the merit of a team in those circumstances.

Everyone is already planning to give their guaranteed spot to a team that might not make it on merit and letting their A team(s) vie for merit spots. That approaches equity, but because a handful of contenders MIGHT not have gotten in before the bell on hardcourtbikepolo.org, you are advocating the preemptive rejection of handfuls of teams. Those handfuls of teams were expecting a 48 team tournament just like everyone else. Due to unfortunate circumstances, everyone has been thrown a curve ball... a 32 team tournament. Not everyone can hit a curve ball, but you guys are attempting to speculatively choose who gets a chance at bat. Only 8 (potentially less because of displacement) teams at Midwests are going to qualify for NAs. Let's say hypothetically that registration is left alone (the infamous clicky-race), and 8 teams qualify. What you are saying is that those 8 teams are less deserving of their qualifying spot because measures weren't taken to ensure that the best talent was there. That, my friend, is the rub. Those spots will be earned regardless. What you are trying to do is play favorites in determining who is allowed to compete for an earned spot. I don't blame anyone for trying to secure their opportunity to compete, but masquerading self-interest under the pretense of it being the best polo is disingenuous and wrong.

This is obviously very close to my heart, as it is to yours. All we have to do is get through this last qualifier without smudging the record of everyone involved with NAH, players and representatives, steadfastly progressing the sport of polo with patience and integrity. Then we can blow the whole fucking thing up and build a better 2013 season that eliminates ambiguity in the road to North American Champion.

This is my appeal to NAH. They're all reading this. I reached out to Chandel privately to see if she could talk me down from the ledge, but I am not interested in moving any part of this discussion to private channels.

I would love for us to scream at each other for a couple of hours, Zach. I bet we would eventually have some real talk. The disappointing truth is that I want a break from this for today. I've already had a 45 min. phone conversation about it, and I've been texting a few people back and forth all day. Additionally, I've written more in this thread than I did in all of college, and my BA in BS came from the english department. I respect your passion for polo, and I infinitely appreciate your patience and dedication in this debate. We will get our chance to be too serious about polo together, but I need to do real life right now.

Edit: moar grammer

"Then we can blow the whole fucking thing up and build a better 2013 season"
a-fucking-men!

i actually agree with most everything you said, save the part about this being "self-interest" (there's nothing in this for me- once we found out we were limited to 32 teams the only aims were balancing competition and equity.. unless of course you mean self-interest to be what's best for the midwest).

but yeah i'd love to talk more about this- real talk- offline. i also think you'd be a great person to join the structure committee as we try to figure out what to do with the 2013 season...

Zachary-Blmgtn wrote:

"No one wants a qualifier full of first-timer teams, especially not in a region as strong as the Midwest, but purposely cutting the fringe teams to reserve room for the top tier is bullying."

Yup, which is why every club has a seat at the table. no one is cut off, everyone has a legit opportunity to make it. small clubs from from Mankato to Indy all will be able to send a team regardless of how awesome Milwaukee or Chicago is...

if this issue is that close to yr heart i would hope yr appealing to NAH just as much as you are in this thread. anyone who has a problem with the MW having "sectionals" need to seriously consider their take on "regionals". or World's distribution, for that matter.

This is terribly flawed. You're trying to make this fair and inclusive, but in reality inviting less talented teams to come before more talented ones. Not all cities are created equally and not all cities have been playing as long or have as much experience. We can look at this objectively from examples of this year's performances.

KY held at tryout for the state-vs-state Midwest bench minor tournament. They had two cities present and everyone that was chosen to represent their states talent came from one city. On a merit based level Lexington should get at least 3 spots before Louisville gets 1

Illinois also held a tryout for their state's bench team. We had three active cities come to show they had what it took to get on the team. Ultimately 12 people were chosen and only one was from outside of Chicago. If you're giving those two cities an automatic spot in this tournament, then that means there will be 5 people going who have already proven on a merit-based level to be less qualified than 8 people from Chicago who might not get in.

At the Riverside tournament the first and second place teams had 5 people from Milwaukee. Need I say more on this one. Milwaukee should have more than 1 guaranteed spot in this event.

Making the spots fairly distributed on a geographical-level has nothing to do with merit. The Midwest regional qualifier is about bringing the top talent from the region together to fight for a spot in the North American champions. It shouldn't matter if that talent come from only one city in the region or all the cities in the region, as long as it is chosen based on merit and not on geography.

I have no problem with the Midwest having "sectionals". this would be the way to find out who has merit and who doesn't, but what are the "sections"? How many "sections" are there? When will these "Sectional tournaments" happen? Who will host them? "Sectionals" are the solution, however lets be realistic, there is no time to have them before the registration of this tournament.

Perhaps when IN held their tryouts, they found out that the talent was distributed more evenly between the cities in their state. well, lucky you. It's no wonder why you are in support of this "option".

This decision makes me want to boycott NAH. Unfortunately, I don't really have any other polo outlet options, so if NAH is going to strong-arm me and my club, then I can't really do anything about it. I have had no voice in the decision being made. There has been no talk of it within my club. Our rep was very recently appointed, and as far as I know had no say in this decision either. It's a joke that a city like Chicago, which has been around since before hardcourt polo was being played, and has had a huge role in growing the to sport to where it is now, has had no say in a decision that adversely effects their ability to compete.

i totally understand your position about skill not correlating to geography. that's why i advocated sectionals over simply cities. a larger city/area might have multiple sectionals. in a less populated area maybe multiple cities would play in the same sectional. it's the same issue we have with regionals- skill equity does not equal geographic equity. this was the compromise. i also wish there was more time to figure this out, and more space for more teams, but there isn't..

and as far as NAH strong-arming you and your club, last time i checked Ben Shultz lives in Chicago... he is head of NAH and one of the key people who made this MW decision.

That was not a sarah decision by any means. i wanted to keep it 3 days. lack of planning can be used but my plan the whole time was a 3 day tournament as stated on the flier http://leagueofbikepolo.com/columbus-equinox-tournament. i am not salty with anyone or trying to bring up old news. but i wish it would have stayed in the planned time range like the 1st cbus tourney and i am still confused as to why there was pressure to make it a 2day. it seemingly ran way smoother and would have ran better as a 3 day.

i am not a great player but i have a huge love for polo and my heart is in this game, i would love to see a better set standard for clear rules that gives every player a chance and i see exactly where lomax is coming from...
that is my 2 cents, feel free to argue but i may not see it as i dont have a ton of time to check these forums.

hope to have the chance to play with everyone again someday.

sarahelizabeth

Lodge this as a complaint.
Don't feel like talking about things nationally before knowing what's been going on with my own club.
The post you're talking about there being potential complaints to has only been up for 24 hours.

You'll see. Unless you drilled out your eyes because they were too heavy.

rob see my comment below. send me an email.

We all know we're dealing with a tricky, unfortunate situation. But as Lomax said, having too many people wanting to play is maybe the best problem we could have. However, it's still a problem.

Given the circumstances, yeah cities were gonna pick one of the two options we were given. Does it make the best overall option? Of course not. We'd all love to have a mecca with six covered courts, lights and lenient open container laws.

But it ain't real. So we (each city) picked option No. 1, knowing it wasn't ideal and--at least in our club's case--knowing not everyone is gonna get what they want, which leads me to my next point.

I'm still "new" after playing for 13 months. That being said, I can't be super confident about getting to play in my region's qualifier even though I want like hell to. How many other cities have players like me that practice consistently, never miss pickup and want to travel to compete?

Would I qualify at MW this year regardless of the system used to get my team there? I'd give it my damn best effort, but it's a stacked region and I wouldn't expect to. That doesn't mean I'd roll over, but it makes me wonder as a fresh player how I'll get to the point where I can compete with the best and qualify if I don't get the chance to play harder teams from different cities, or even watch some of the best play. I suppose the answer to that question is to go to other regions' qualifiers, which I'm trying to do (ESPI).

I acknowledge that this is a tough problem that only has solutions where toes get stepped on. I'd imagine each city is dealing with "fourth wheel" players at some level, and it sucks.

I'm not upset and I can't offer a better solution, although I wish I could fix our best problem. I just wanna play, compete and win.

notsochristian wrote:

it makes me wonder as a fresh player how I'll get to the point where I can compete with the best and qualify if I don't get the chance to play harder teams from different cities, or even watch some of the best play. I suppose the answer to that question is to go to other regions' qualifiers, which I'm trying to do (ESPI).

another "solution" is that more people organize more tournaments and not wait for NAH qualifiers to travel to play with other cities. People should be holding more sixteen team, single court tournaments, which are way easier to organize, and can still attract some top level play. Look at Lafayette riverside for example.

If you have a decent size crew (12 or more regulars) and you're not trying to host a couple events a year, you're probably doing it wrong...

Yeah, you're right. That's a damn good solution. But if I--or any new player--got better at only those tourneys and still don't get a chance to play at MW in a year because my team isn't recognized and we're still the second-best team in our city, then what?

Digression: Those small tourneys don't always turn into shark tanks like Riverside did. So I think those are soon to be or should be invitationals if there's only one court. And maybe that's how new blood like me will improve: invite mostly competitive new blood.

I've attended as many of these small tourneys as I can. Last year I made it to Midwests, Lex Summer Break, MW Open, Star City Open. This year I already made it to Riverside...and placed in the top eight.

COMO is trying. Our resources--court, P&R help mostly--aren't ideal, but two vets here have some fun ideas with which I plan to help for either the spring or summer.

Back on track: I'll probably still go to Madison even if I don't get to play. As I said, I just wanna compete.

dude you're doing everything right. you travel, you help out, you practice as much as possible.

maybe this year you don't make the cut.. that's fine, you tried yr hardest and you'll get better and make the cut next year. you know what would suck though? if that "cut" wasn't based on skill or merit, but rather the speed of your computer and some internet time stamp...

and ya know, if for some reason you don't play in Madison we'll still need announcers for the live broadcast ;)

Thanks, buddy. I know I am to my standards and frankly, not sure how you can do "wrong" in the poloverse. No disrespect at all Kev, just sayin' that I measure myself to my standards. And man I need to get a passport to come play in Canada, eh?

FYI, Missouri is still figuring out teams.

Yeah, that would be frustrating, but not getting to play is not getting to play. And if it was gonna happen one way or the other, it doesn't matter to me how it happens. It still would suck. We'll see what happens this year. It's all a good learning experience, I suppose.

You better believe I'll be in Madison to announce, officiate, cheer, jeer, heckle and party. But in the meantime, I'll still take a crack at playing.

Yeah when i said "you're doing it wrong" i wasn't talking to you or Como. I guess i was thinking about all 21 Midwest clubs who might be clamouring for a spot at the event. I think there only four upcoming tournaments in the Midwest have been announced (plus rumours like midwest open & something in STL).

I completely agree with you that there should be more orginaziation of regional competitions to help regulate qualiying teams, also so people can travel and compete against talent outside their clubs. The thing is for this years MW qualifier who knew it was going to play out this way. As for us "doing it wrong". We are doing what we can here in Lafayette, and plan on doing more. If I had realized that the MW qualifier was going to be the way it's coming out to be things would be a lot different. Hell if anyone knew it would have been throughout the entire MW. We are a small club consisting of 4 involved, traveling, and competing players with one representing team and a small pool of 5-6 semi interested outcomers. We have successfully and hosted 3 tournaments with little local resources and luckily an amazing court. With that being said, your argument is exemplified in the sense that if a small club such as Lafayette can pull it off then yes there should be more clubs stepping up and hosting tournaments, and not banking on other clubs or the MW qualifier. Next year step up, or step out and make way for people who want it more.

TR

Word.

It's like people think NAH events are the only events happening... it's also ridiculous that everyone wants to bitch about tournaments but no one is willing to step up and host.

With the way this system is set up, why wouldn't you have Charlie, Kruse, and their 3rd go as an "at large team?" Surely after winning the South Central Qualifier they are near top of that list. Then COMO gets their city spot opened back up.

Read Lucky's post above. It may not be right that any city with one slayer team automatically gets their next best team in, but it is what it is, so you may as well use it to your advantage.

This is the plan, redbeard!!

I think we can all agree on two things:

1) This year, this was really the only option to maintain midwests as a competitive tournament that showcases the best display of talent from around the midwests.

2) Lets start working towards next year right NOW, ensuring that in 2013 this will be a process that is determined 100% quantitatively. Lets split up divisions within the midwest region, and give them time to design divisional qualifiers so that every division is represented and every player has the chance to make it to the regional. Lets also start trying to decide who can plan to do the regional next year.

Also! Should we maybe start thinking of bringing the midwests to a once-a-year format in order to ensure that we have enough cities to host? Maybe the twice-a-year thing is putting a little too much load on the region and we should be focusing a little less on the open. Just a thought in what are obviously turbulent times!!

Thanks everyone for putting energy into this.

BoozeKruse wrote:

Lets start working towards next year right NOW, ensuring that in 2013 this will be a process that is determined 100% quantitatively. Lets split up divisions within the midwest region, and give them time to design divisional qualifiers so that every division is represented and every player has the chance to make it to the regional.

I wonder if there is, perchance, a draft map describing such a sub-regional / regional system for NAH? Ha. http://g.co/maps/5v6j6

Ahh there it is. I think you've shown me this before but I couldn't find it.

Can NAH send out an email to club reps so we can get a vote on these divisions? It's not too early, lets do this.

This is just my proposal, its not on behalf of NAH. NAH is working on 2013 though, for sure.

more information is never a bad thing... i really like that map btw.

Yes, I like that map too. It is well done.

I don't see why we have to wait to get this done. NAH is great, but lets just get this going and see if everyone from the regions in at least the midwest would be on board. Then NAH can use that vote as information in how to proceed.

Seriously, there's no reason not to poll the players on this.

Nick Kruse!
amazing! why don't you confer with me *over here* and we'll discuss how to do this for all regions, not just the midwest. as it will/can/should become the standard for all regions...[sends nick a message...]

and we are working on 2013. for sure. this is all a very big example of the direction that it can go. [that's not to say that IS where it is going, just that it can]...

Not sure what NAH has planned for 2013, but if they are considering this format, I'd like to point out that it discourages the formation of mid-level multi-city teams as they may decide to opt for a city spot instead of taking their chances for an "at large" spot.

That said, one way to deal with this in the future is to have teams apply for "at large" spots before city teams are selected. If they don't make the cut, they still have a chance at going with their city team.

Indeed. Although there's nothing to discourage people from playing with others inside of their division.

For example, Me Chuck and Ben. Ben is in STL but it would still be in our division. I don't think it would be necessary for divisions to limit the number of teams by city.

As long as they are broken up evenly and small enough, divisional qualifiers to determine who goes onto regional qualifiers should be open to teams that have 2 players from inside of that division. So you and Chris could pick up literally anyone you wanted because you are from the same division. Someone from CHI could play with someone from MKE and someone from Hawaii, because 2 would be in the same division.

Ya feel me? Spots would no longer need to be allocated by what city you play in, only what division you play in. Keep it close, but you don't have to keep it THAT close.

I meant more that any multi-city team is competing for one of 11 spots, and that list is is also populated with some cities A teams that are trying to give their B teams a city spot. Who knows how deep that "at large" list goes? If I'm borderline, I'm probably going to play it safe and play with 2 others from my city. Does that make sense?

If 2/3 players are from one city, you can't count it as that cities entry, correct?

I see now.

You're not borderline, dude.

I'd argue that a 2/3 rule should be applied to count as a city entry if that team would rather go in as a city than as an "at large" team. I don't know what Madison or NAH or whoever is in charge would say about that, though.

Right, I don't either.

Also, meant that borderline comment as more hypothetical.

OH SO YOU'RE GETTING COCKY NOW, EH?

Yeah Redbeard, as Kruse said that is the plan.

Like I said I'm not mad or upset at anybody or any city, but as a new(er) player the qualifier feels like a faux invitational. I kinda get it. There are tons of top-tier players and teams in this region. It's just unfortunate that some competitive, driven players will get left out as a result. Again, the best problem we could have I suppose.

The idea of either divisional, state or city "qualifiers" to get to the MW qualifier in 2013 seems like a great idea. That should motivate those of us who want to win to get better.

Then what if the MW Open became the MW Invitational that features high-ranking--perhaps newer--teams that didn't make it to the MW qualifier? Smaller, still competitive, but manageable.

I don't see why cities aren't organizing a city qualifier for this problem. As soon as this system was announced I called a city playdown for all teams interested in traveling to Madison. Whoever wins the playdown will get our spot. Everyone else has to enter for merit.

This is exactly the right approach. If you're looking for someone else to tell you how to determine who gets to go, then you're not doing your job as a club because that's an internal decision.

It would be really helpful to me and I'm sure some of my other clubmates if we knew who was representing us in these discussions and they would talk to us about them, seeing as we don't have a club rep with Keith gone. Feeling a little kicked under the table about the whole thing.

You'll see. Unless you drilled out your eyes because they were too heavy.

*cough cough* uh, rob, i'm your new club rep. sorry i haven't been representing you or talking to you about things. i just sort of inherited the role last week, i'm not really involved in anything yet.

Ben Shultz was a part of this from the beginning- note that he's the one making the announcements, he's a part of NAH, and he's from Chicago...

Yes, Ben Schultz is from Chicago!

However, Ben Schultz does NOT represent Chicago. He also does not pass NAH information on to Chicago's club members. Nor is it his responsibility to do so. As Chris said " i just sort of inherited the role last week, i'm not really involved in anything yet." Chris was not elected, he was basically just told, "you're our rep now."

This is where a conflict of interest that Lomax was talking about is very apparent. There is at least one spot for Ben Schultz to guarantee that his team can play in this tournament. Who is he going to play with?, I don't know. Machine Politics isn't here anymore. I wasn't planning on playing with him, but I'm sure his team will be taking care of.

The problem is not with how many spots there are. I don't care if there are 12, 32, 48, or 100 spots. That's up to Madison to decide what they can host. Madison shouldn't be in charge of how people register though, that's is a NAH problem.

The problem Is with how the spots are being allocated. A geographical dispersement ensures representation of a region, but not a representation of the talent within a region. Also if the 11 up-for-grab spots is going to be exploited be first-string "A" teams trying to help their cities second-string "B" teams get a spot, than it defeats the purpose of having them up-for-grabs.

Thank you Lomax for speaking out when you see wrong doing, even when it's not in you're region and doesn't really effect you. the internet-clicky race sucks, but we should stick with it for the sake of continuity for this year. If this system is going to be used it should have been announced in time for people to register and attend other out of region qualifiers.

What happened to your Club Rep?

Keith was our club rep, but he moved to Seattle. : (

Midwest is best!!

I just want to mention that I think having a cities "A" team enter for the remaining 11 spots in order for their "B" team to get in undermines the whole process. Just because we are dealing with a flawed system doesn't mean we should make it worse. It would be nice if we could all have some ethics and ensure that we are sending the best team from each of our cities. I recognize that inter-city teams create an additional conflict with this system but I am going to be pretty sad if I see that Milwaukee puts the Wardens as their team and enters the Beaver Boys as a merit based team. (Just an example)

I know that I am one of the rare club reps who isn't planning on attending this event and I recognize that by not being able to attend I am able to make less biased decisions about who should represent Winnipeg and how. That said the only fair way I can see it is to have the teams wanting to represent compete against each other. We are doing this tomorrow.

i'm with you here. If your "B" squad is good enough to get a merit based spot, then your club has 2 good teams. Not an amazing one and an ok one. Which works for us. But, greg v pointed out though, the bigger clubs do have several competitive level teams. Are we doing this perfectly? Ehh..but at least this shit is going to happen.

I'm just saying that if you hold a city qualifier to determine your city team and then still have merit based teams enter those. If they really deserve to be there as well then they will get one of the 11 slots. The other way does not guarantee the best competition.

I don't know, I actually think I take the other angle. I think the teams that consistently perform or win should be the teams off their "merit" or the 11 teams (which would be teams that play together on a year in year out basis), which also means that cities like MKE would have more than one team who consistently finish at least top 5 in tourneys may have 2 teams from their merit and one with the city position.

maybe next year we hold 16 slots for merit and select the rest are selected by a (blank) number of team spots for state or parts of the region. -just an idea

So who will decide what teams make it in the at-large pool? Ben only? NAH reps? Madison? A collective?

Just looking for some transparency here.

Bump.

The decisions will be made by the steering committee. The steering committee will consist of former tournament organizers, current tournament organizer and regional reps.

so organizers from madison, bloomington, minneapolis, columbia, dayton, ben simon and ben shultz, correct? am i missing anyone?

Lex?

That was the Midwest open.

request has been emailed to change Dayton, OH rep to myself. No clue who the listed rep is.

danaL
gem city
anti-slayer
diagonal text

I just changed you to the club rep.

How about Madison/MKE/Chicago get grandfathered in 2 teams, plus merit teams? For having owned the podium since 2006, and for having 3 teams show up to every Midwest championship since 2006?

Signed,
A former midwesterner trying to stir up shit

How about past hosts getting extra spots too. It was like pulling teeth to get somebody to step up for that too. Madison didn't show up to MW5, something about Halloween...

Keep stirring that pot.

madison really only has one team to throw in the mix.

Id guess there are, at best, 12 midwest teams that could make podium. Make it a 24 team tournament. One spot for each city (overly inclusive) and an extra for WI, IL and MO.

the dark end (aka Bobb Todd, Marzipan, B.R. Fuck Face)

Just a heads up, registration starts today at noon. Please make sure to emails in this week to register for this tournament. Registration has started, the rules for this process are above.

the orignal link is here

http://leagueofbikepolo.com/midwest-2012#comment-96908

Alright there is so much too read on this thread, and I'm sorry if this was already brought up. Jessi (Lexington) and myself were wondering about this, since I live in Cincinnati now and just moved here from Michigan 5 months ago, but I am moving to Lexington in literally 16 days and I plan on officially living there for a long time. Which city/state am I apart of for this Midwest Championship? Jessi, James from Lexington and myself play on a team and we wanted to know if we would register as a mixed team or complete Lexington team? Another example Chris from Atlanta moved to Lexington and Eric from Atlanta is moving there around the same time, where do they stand as well?

This is a good question, but since you are midwest and both of your teammates are midwest you can qualify as a midwest team for an at large bid or you can qualify as a city, all we ask is that 2/3 of the team be from the city for city team representation or 2/3 from the midwest for regional representation.

As far as Eric and Chris, that one is tricky. I would say that chris would be qualified already because he lives in lexington, eric's case would have to be looked into. Do they have a third? If not i would say they should just play with a midwest player and it won't be an issue.

Yes thanks, James has sent out the email and put us in as an at large team, but also mentioned that I am moving to Lexington and will be living there a month before Midwests even happen. I feel like it shouldn't be a problem since I am moving there to live there and to be apart of that polo club, and same with Chris and Eric. Also I think Eric and myself are moving there around the same time.
Pretty much we were just wondering if our team would count as a complete Lexington team, or a mixed midwest team, but since we mentioned all of this in our email to you guys I'm sure whoever looks over those will figure it out.

All teams who want to submit an at large bid need to email midweststeering@gmail.com and submit their information. You did this with your team, eric and chris should if they want to be considered both for their location and their eligibility.

just to mix it all up Louisville will not be fielding a team unfortunately so I'm assuming that will add a 12th at large spot.

talk shit and burn bridges

You can always count on Louisville to shake things up!

321polo.net

Thanks to you and your club for the advance notice. That will make a big difference knowing that in advance.

If any other clubs don't plan on fielding a club team, please chime in so we know how many at-large spots we have to deal with.

I want to let people know we plan to use the 2012 NAH ruleset with one change. Instead of having players come off the court for penalties we will be giving out fines. Penalties will be $10 for minor infractions and $25 for majors. After a penalty the ball will still change possession but the player will not be forced to come off the court. We still reserve the right to eject a player for a major infraction.

Teams must pay the penalty before their next game or they will be forced to forfeit the match. All money from the penalties will be put in a fund for beer.

hope you have an atm machine on site.

There is a cash machine about a mile away.

love it jonny, can't wait to go to Madison for my first time, it's going to be a fun event. and now we will have plenty of beer.

In an effort to lead by example. we(MKE) have submitted beaver boys as out city rep and guthrie/jake/tbd as our at large.

shit I figured beaver boys would enter at-large, so I did brian a favor and made him our third.. since you know... clearly they don't make the cut and he lived here for a year..

Good show.

coffee, whiskey, beer. repeat.

Well done, Milwaukee. Can't give you enough credit for this.

Classy MKE. Real Classy!

looks like Como and MPLS pulled the sheisty reg with their "A" teams for at large and "B" teams city reps.

Please do explain.

Except only one team is purely COMO.

The notion that this is/was looked down upon is utterly retarded. I ignored it when it was first brought up and I'll ignore it now.

1) The purpose of allocating 1 team per city was to ensure a fair spread among teams regardless of talent level distribution, giving a proper representation of the entire midwest.

2) The purpose of allocating ~11 teams for "at large" bids was to ensure that multi-city teams and more skilled teams would be represented in full. This helps to allow cities/geographical areas with more talent to have more representation, so that the talent at the tournament would not be brought down.

Your city chose to submit the beaver boys as your city rep. The fact that you think this is the "non-sheisty" way to do it makes no sense to me at all. AT LARGE bids are for AT LARGE teams. Not UNPROVEN teams that can do nothing but cross their fingers and hope to make it.

The tournament registration was designed this way for a reason. Sending the Beaver Boys as an at large team would have made perfect sense seeing as they are an AT LARGE team. Of course you weren't worried about your second team not being represented, because you are all still good and well known and have been around the block more than a couple times.

Edit: And by around the block I mean you've all sucked a lot of dick. See you in Madison!

Anybody looking for a third? I know it's late but my team fell apart over the weekend.

Bust

Bike Polo Ronin

And by bust I mean that I got on a team last minute and we're going to bust your balls all weekend.

Bike Polo Ronin

Attention, you have 50 minutes to submit a Club team or At-large midwest team for the Championships.

If you were thinking of not applying cause you'd get rejected, you are going to feel pretty silly if the registration doesn't get filled with in-region teams.

SUBMIT a team to midweststeering@gmail.com ASAP.

Here are 32 teams for MWBPC10.

30 In-region teams with two "out of region" teams from the Mitten.

Am i reading that right- did everyone who registered at-large make it in?

That is correct.

^yup.

So I guess I will import this into hardcourtbikepolo.org and you guys can claim your names, correct?

did anyone else notice line # 34?!?! beavers someone is coming for ya...

I think you mean #33

321polo.net

nope, line #34... Shultz, McLean, Simpson.

That comes up as line 33 for me, WEEEEIIIRD!

321polo.net

...aliens.

ctrl+r! line 19 is way more threatening anyhow. Assuming the competition is for best trash talkers AND nicest dudes around.

Can't wait, looks like it is going to be a tough field anyway you cut it. See all of you in Madison.

Keep your standards low, and morale high.

Out of curiosity, can we get any info on location and such? We've got a lot of friends in madison (Something about them having a college that I wasn't ambitious or smart enough to be admitted to) and I want to know which of those friends is the most important to us.

The team from Grand Rapids is accepting free agents for a third. Players with strong defensive backgrounds are encouraged to apply. Must be willing to reap the benefits / accept the consequences of Jedi passing and all around audacious maneuvers.

We're in it to win it. Come on board and help us become the Buster Douglas of bike polo.

I would love to play with you guys!! I am a strong defensive player that likes to set picks and I am a wall in goal. Pick me! Send me a msg if interested.

Midwest is best!!

yeah and if she's already taken, take me! cause i will just so happen to be at the midwest's hanging out anyway this year....
and i got a goalie skill or two.
plus i can score a goal or two if you let me.

This team is locked up...look out.

Out of curiosity, may I inquire how an out of region team would have been accepted into your spot allocation system? Seems contradictory to your original intent.

(no offense to the Mitten, you guys are rad. I'm intersted in the thoughts behind this decision)

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

They sent in a request for a team slot after Noon CST on Monday.

okay, thanks sven.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

Which I find pretty funny. Our club went through some deliberation to figure out who to send in our city spot, as I'm sure many other clubs did. As it turned out, literally ANYONE from inside the region could have signed up for an at-large spot before noon on that day and they would have been accepted into the tournament. No one did though because they thought they'd be rejected, but the thing wasn't even filled...

Yeah, some from chicago didn't apply and should have.

Blah blah blah blah.

You'll see. Unless you drilled out your eyes because they were too heavy.

I still stand behind this statement.

You'll see. Unless you drilled out your eyes because they were too heavy.

Sveden wrote:

The main point being, the Midwest can field 32 very competitive teams.

The Midwest can not, however, field 48 very competitive teams.

Thats the root of the problem. A problem we solved with a solution that was all but unanimous.

This tournament will fill up with In-Region teams. Guaranteed.

Looks like we had all of that fun for nothing, eh?

Side note: Is everyone else getting the exact same number in the minutes spot of the post date/time or is my computer doing the weirdest thing that I've ever seen it do?

Yeah, I'm getting X:04 for everybody. It's a conspiracy. Somehow. I'll let Kruse figure it out.

hmm, that's kinda funny, looking into it. if i don't fix it before May, i bet you all the posts will finish in :05

I think it is unfortunate that more clubs did not send in registrations for at large spots. That being said, have two michigan teams take the at large spots is pretty awesome since it is nonsense that they are not part of the midwest region.

You're nonsense.

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

i would agree with that

this is fixed

http://www.cityofmadison.com/parks/parks/park.cfm?id=1154

The tournament will be held at Door Creek Park. The map below shows the bike route to the park with the Madison Capitol building as the starting location (heart of the city). The link above offers more details about the park from the Madison Parks Department's website.

View Larger Map

anyone else notice the little island in the southern pond??

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?ll=43.095781,-89.250215&spn=0.003996,0.00...

party on the island!

I'll show you how to portage a bike.

I've said before I'd be willing to pay more for tourneys (somebody can Daily Show me and find the post where I said I would've paid $50 for Bloomington's Midwests last year). In my fledgling polo life this is the most I've seen for registration (almost $96 per team after that online service fee). I'm not upset or protesting, but I would like to know where the money goes.

I'm assuming there's an allotment for renting the courts (maybe insurance?). What else ya got planned?

Looking forward to this.

my only complaint is the extra fee. coulda just used paypal and sent it as gift an avoided that

Just to reiterate, I'm not complaining. Simply looking for a little info as to where my money goes.

Like I said, I'm OK with paying more for polo tourneys as it's not easy work and the expectations are high. Part of me is hoping that some of this money goes toward some home-cooked food from the Hunters...

It violates the terms of use to have the money come in as a gift and i didn't want to take a risk in order to do that which could tie up the money for awhile if we were implicated. Eventbrite is a solid system that i use for a bunch of different events.

see i knew there was a legitamate reason thanks

Looking for housing for my team. Who should I email?

We will be emailing information out about the tournament very soon.

I'd like to know where the money goes as well. But keep in mind this tournament is sorta last minute. Too late for many sponsors I'd bet.

I think it is great to question where the money for the tournament goes. The total outlay per player is $32 which includes money that goes to the credit card fees as well as money that goes to NAH. After those are subtracted it comes down to $27 a player which includes courts that are built solely for this tournament, liability insurance, permit fees, craft services, logistics, equipment, officiating, internet connection. So the cost to each player is $13.50 a day which is pretty minimal considering that there are not that many participants and it is a full two day event. $13.50 is really a minimal amount to pay for the services that are provided and to complain about it fails to take into account the work that the organizers have put into it. I know it is more then most people have paid but it really is not very much money if you look at it.

We do have some sponsors but we focused our sponsors on prizes and we are trying to provide a cash prize or equipment prizes that are really useful to players. I think in the end the user experience will benefit from having organizers who actually have the resources to host a successful event.

Thank you.

I wasn't complaining, and I hope I made that clear. I simply like to know where my money is going, and I had a hunch it was being used in the best possible manner. I appreciate your transparency, Jonny. And I'm extra appreciative of all Madison is doing/has done/will do to make this possible. Trust me, I won't take it for granted.

Why would there be money going to NAH? What is it for and how much? None of the other tournaments are giving a portion of their fees to NAH. At least not that I know of and I'm a representative to NAH.

Can you expand on what you mean by craft services? Are we getting Lunch and Dinner both days?

No decisions about craft services yet. I will say that we care about food and will provide something.

Sven each tournament has been required to give $10 from the team cost of registration to NAH per the tournament requirements set forth by the tournament committee in order to host a regional qualifier.
you can reference this thread for information about this.
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/tournaments/2011/12/15/nahbpa-qualifyi...

Interesting about the registration fee. Haven't seen it mentioned by the organizers of SE, E, N, SW and CAS. But then again I may have overlooked that too.

If you guys did the food like you did at NA's in 2010 that would be amazing. No free food but all of it offered at low cost and high quality. I just don't want to see "craft services" included in my entry fee explanation.

I don't think I'm the only person who is going to have trouble coming up with a suprise $96 in 5 days of receiving an invoice. If this tournament is going to cost that much extra per person hopefully Madison can extend some leeway to team's having a hard time collecting, transferring to one account and paying electronically this fee.

can you explain what you mean by? "I just don't want to see "craft services" included in my entry fee explanation."

If teams contact me about needing more time i'm sure we can work something out, i'm just trying to make sure that we can fill the spots by any teams who do can't participate.

Because this:
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/midwest-2012#comment-99724

and this:
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/midwest-2012#comment-99766

Offer conflicting answers as to food provided to players at no charge.

As I said, I'd rather pay a low amount for the amazing food that you and your crew make then have some of the food I've eaten at other tournaments. Food that was budgeted for and included in my admission price.

I don't see where the conflict is? Can you point out where this is?

jonny wrote:

can you explain what you mean by? "I just don't want to see "craft services" included in my entry fee explanation."

I think he just wants you to say "adult beverages" instead of "craft services". Or maybe I'm wrong and he would rather see "adult edibles".

Bike Polo Ronin

edible panties

Edible jock straps

Bike Polo Ronin

To anyone who has team in this tournament you should have received an invitation to this tournament in your inbox. If your captain didn't please contact someone from Madison to get that cleared up.

I only mention this because there is a very short timeline to pay. "Pay within 5 days or lose your spot"

By "inbox" do you mean email inbox? And 5 days from what date? I don't believe any of my team are very good at keeping up internet what-have-yous...and I guess Knobbe is our captain. I basically don't know what's going on ever...

Bike Polo Ronin

Are these fancy tickets getting scanned at the entrance? Is there a bike valet?

will we get to see a team list after the 5 day paypal time?

I don't have the players cross listed with the teams but these are the 10 teams who have registered. If you don't see a teammate here then please get ahold of whoever sent your team registration in to begin with. If you registered and didn't receive and invite to register please contact me as soon as possible. midweststeering@gmail.com

Nick Kruse
Joseph Rstom
Jens Bauermeister
James Gonyer
Jonathan Atwell
Matt Ruiter
Aren Frymire
Jacob Newborn
matthew lodge
aaron steen

These are the teams who have paid and registered.
Bloomington Tree City
Columbia TBD
Columbus TBD
Fort Wayne Fort Waste
Kansas City TBD
Lafayette Dic-taters
Lexington Sexual Chocolate
Fluffy Ducks
TBD Jake Newborn Guthrie Matt Hewitt
Mankato Blue Skunks
Madison Put a bird on it
Madison Iron Badgers
Winnepeg WUPASS
3rd times a charm
TBD Nick Knobbe Jared LEX Tim D
Shelbyville Shelbyvillians
Unicorn Blood Transfusion
Horsehead Nebula
Mitten Polo
Grand Rapids

If you wanna be on the waiting list for this tournament email midweststeering@gmail.com some spots might open up.

either i botched something up, or GB should be on that list

i don't have payment for the green bay team. Do you know who paid and what their email was?

<---I paid: aaron steen

found it your good.

I imagine we'll go through hardcourtbikepolo.org to register/enter team names? Nevertheless, Columbia TBD (Aaron, John, Christian) is Eat Some Chips.

One spot just opened up for the tournament. If you are interested in filling the spot email midweststeering@gmail.com, the spot will be filled on a first come basis.

Who dropped?

321polo.net

Who's spot?

Indianapolis is no longer coming.

typical indy...

typical of Zach to say such a thing

Hey Slayers - Horsehead Nebula/MPLS needs a third... Wanna git sum?
hit me up ----> upcycler(at)gmail

MinneaPOLOgasm -----------[] ((((O

just sent you an e-mail. let me know.

Hey Chicago folks,
Two car loads of Cincinnati slayers will be getting into chicago late thursday night... any chances of a spot to crash for the night. I'm trying to get some Chi-town breakfast before we head to Madison.

Don't let this party train derail.... and in return, you get some quality weird time with the legendary Ian Bulling.

when pigs fly.

Whoring out the teammate.

when pigs fly.

Get ready, Chicago. You're not ready.

Oh they're ready....

when pigs fly.

Fuck that Chris, The wagon stops for no man.

stop pissing in my cheerios, mf'er.

when pigs fly.

Chris and I have room for you guys! I'd love to see Ian again since I'm not going to Midwests.

Midwest is best!!

Any housing being coordinated? I think our plans fell through.

Yeah, housing? Quite a few Missourians coming up...

Dekalb just dropped out so we have one more slot open for teams to register. Email midweststeering@gmail.com if you are interested.

I'd love to play. Are there any two other's that would want to sign up?

I'd love to play too. I'm from cincinnati.

Rumors are that kc dropped too.

321polo.net

pff. you mean dropped knowledge.

yeah we're out.

S'OK now.

Sven,
I'm looking to play but am more of a defensive player as well. I'll be in Madison no matter what, so if you're still in need later this week, keep me in mind.

We are all set on teammates. Was just coming to edit my original post. Thanks tho!

So I had about 5 times the amount of housing requested then we actually have. I'm not recommending this but if you wanna camp the park that courts are at wouldn't be the worst spot. Otherwise if you can find other housing options that would make it helpful for us.

As Jonny says, we're not recommending nor condoning camping in the park at the courts, though you might find it a pleasant place to fall asleep.

https://www.reservedane.com/parks.aspx - Look up Lake Farm Park or McCarthy Youth & Conservation Park

Hotels on the far east side of Madison may also be a good place to stay...away from UW Madison graduation, closer to the courts, etc.

Hey so i just found a spot to play this weekend but i don't have a ride is there anyone coming near to Bloomington that might be able to pick me up all the other cars from here are full and mine won't make it. Cinncinnati???Lexington??? anyone have any space at all?

Morning and Afternoon brackets have been set up. Please let me know if there are any problems here.
http://hardcourtpodium.com/follow/midwests

why only a 16 team double elim?

doesn't NAH rules require at least 24 team?

in the past we've easily done 32 out of 48 for sunday...

It is 24 teams for the double elim. Just haven't set it up yet.

nice. thanks for the clarification.

I'm listed as being from Decatur
I'm not from Decatur.

Anyone passing through Chicago on their way to Madison, either Thurs. night or Fri. morning with room for me and my bike?

Thanks

the dark end (aka Bobb Todd, Marzipan, B.R. Fuck Face)

calling all space-phones! does anyone who's attending have a 3G phone that could provide internet for the livestream?

we were gonna use Sven's super awesome 4G connections but we just found out it's slightly outside the coverage area... so it still may work but we need a backup.

Who's fuck stoked? I am!

See you all tomorrow.

Fuck stoked? Is that when you get fucked by an energy espresso shot?

christian, that would be stok fucked. fuck stoked is more like that giddy, post-sex afterglow.

Here is a map for the weekend. The courts are not downtown but it is an easy trip from downtown. We should have pickup at the courts by 2pm today. Meet us there and we will have an informal party tonight at a local bar.

http://g.co/maps/u2zxj

We will be using the new rule set from NAH. We don't have many ref's who are super familiar with the rules so be ready for some confusion but hopefully by the end of the weekend we will have a strong grasp on the rules.

Here are the basic details the tournament will be held on the east side of madison at Door Creek Park.

http://www.cityofmadison.com/parks/parks/park.cfm?id=1154

This is not downtown but there are a lot services in the neighborhood. This includes a large grocery store called woodman's and some really good mexican restaurants. There is also a good brew pub called the great dane nearby and a liquor store.

Courts are going up this weekend so we should be able to facilitate pickup all day on friday.

Here is a basic schedule:

Friday pick up till 8pm - no scheduled party but there will probably be something informal at a local bar.

Saturday - We should have a schedule for teams up soon. Assume that you will be in the morning. Start time is 9am. Afternoon group needs to be present by 1pm. If you are not present when your team is scheduled to play you will be fined $15 dollars for every 5 minutes late. This fee will need to be paid before your team can participate in the next game.

Saturday Evening - Party at the Great Dane. We will have some free beer and they do food. http://eastside.greatdanepub.com/

Sunday - Matches start at 10am. Double Elimination.

We are trying to facilitate a party at our new restaurant for players. If not there we will try to do something at the weary traveler.

We will be providing a hospitality tent sponsored by trek at the tournament. This will include Breakfast, snacks, beverages and some energy bars.

brackets for sunday are set, games start at 10a.

http://hardcourtpodium.com/follow/midwests

Beaver boys iron badgers playing for 30 minutes? Podium frozen?

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

Read my mind.

Unofficial from Ohio (person not residents of)

Beavers
Badgers
Bacon

____________
The only reason anyone does anything.
For the lulz.

Thanks Mike. I have been waiting as well.

Oh look over here for thread #2: http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/tournaments/2012/05/20/midwest-regiona...