Machine Politics vs L'Équipe, August 2010. Photo by Steph Simcox
Who's the best and why?
FWIW, I'm trying to rock a 36h 3x rear and a 48 radial disc front
i may be wrong here, maybe old school mindset, but radial would be TERRIBLE for polo. especially a disc brake. theyre really not suitable for torque. it also adds a bunch of unneeded stress to the hub itself, which can sometimes damage the hubs. i've seen spokes pull through hubs on cheaper ones. take it for what it's worth.
also unless you're using a cassette i don't see why you'd spend the money on a king or white.
Radial works great for me currently with rim brakes, but I am definitely worried about the torque that a disc brake would put on a radial wheel. People seem to hate on radial front wheels, but unless you are rocking a disc brake, it's perfectly fine. I can play without a wheel cover and haven't ever had a shot go through my spokes (not even panizzo), they're easy as hell to true up, and the nipples are less likely to break when the spoke will bend instead. However, I am curious if 48 spokes with thick hub flanges and a disc brake would hold up. My guess is not well, but if someone tells me otherwise, I'd love to try it. White makes some nice ss freewheel hubs, and king has their proprietary thing, so they're still in the running if it's worth having to stick to their systems.
If you aren't sinning, Jesus died for nothing.
I got 99 bitches, one ain't a problem.
i guess man. but like you even said, it's an issue if you're running a disc, and you said you were... i dunno man, good luck.
I thought that you were never supposed to mix radial lacing and disc brakes.
Combination of choice: Smash + Bang
I don't care about your front radial disc drama. If you are going to spend King or White type money. I say buy a Hope. They come in a million colors, are bullet proof, and have great seals to keep the water out and the grease in. Just my two.
That will never work.
Radial lacing with disc brakes will ruin your day. In a radial lacing, the spokes effectively turn into long lever arms trying to resist the motion of the rim/tire relative to the disc. Bad news bears.
Radial lacing is generally ok for rim brake wheels because very little (if any) of the braking force is loaded directly on to the spokes. I say only generally ok because you don't often see radially laced rear wheels. The reason there has to do more with uneven load profiles (the drivetrain load) and problems that arise from the dishing of the wheel.
i see a fair share of half radial rears. it really comes down to the torque issues.
Right, so half-radial is a little bit of an exception. I'm willing to bet almost all of the half-radial laced wheels you've seen have the radial side on the non-drive side, correct? The majority of the forces on the rear wheel are going to be seen on the drive side thanks to the drivetrain. I'm not sure I've ever seen a half-radial rear disc wheel, but my guess is that they are rare and probably not the safest.
only saw them on light road wheels with 32 spoke.
I think we can fit at least one more post in about radial lacing with a disc brake. Any takers?
Half radial front wheel with 4x on the brake side??
That might be rideable but I wouldn't be into trying personally. Braking force on the front wheel is higher (due to the forward-shift of weight during braking) than the force you, I, or anyone outside of maybe elite track sprinters could put on a rear wheel through the drivetrain.
IMHO 4x looks badass and is super strong so if you've got 48 spokes, why not?
Sidenote: Who sells 48h disc hubs? Are they custom drilled?
Not sure whether u meant front or rear but I recently built up a 135mm spaced 48h cassette hub with rotor holes for use on both my tandem and cargo bike, and it's rollin strong. The brand was Halo, I'll see if I can dig up a link to it. The freehub is loud as heck tho...
paul and phil will do them custom. and i guess fixcraft will have them out soonish.
real wuestion is why do you want to do a radial wheel? what benefit do you expect to get for polo?
mostly it's because I prefer to play without wheel covers and 48 radial doesn't let anything through the spokes. I've seen shots go through 48s on a cross pattern, but never radial. Additionally, nipples are less prone to breaking when the spoke is more likely to bend or lose a little tension without the reinforcement of a cross pattern, making it easier to maintain.
48h 4cross 26 nothing is going through buddy
Alright look, I'm not super stuck on radial; if need be, I'll just put a damn wheel cover on. Point is, I want to hear a good cross review of some sweet hubs, dang.
I think 4x isn't stronger than 3x, but 3x is stiffer, because you use shorter spokes.
The more crosses the more likely it will for the ball to pass, it leaves gaps in the center. I have had both. Nothing has ever been through my radial. Part of the reason I am not going to disc front is that I would lose my radial (and my Phil Wood)
hardcourtbikepolo dot org
How many spokes? size of wheels?
im kind of curious too, is that possible to make radial + 3 cross in front to make even less space?
26" and 28 spokes. I don't think it gets any better than 48 radial, space-wise. I have a 48 / 3x on the rear and I see gaps. The biggest gap on my front is MAYBE an inch or inch and a half..
The other benefits of radial is that the deflection is predictable and the force is usually distributed evenly..
26" and 28! and you don't get ball trought?`
So i could maybe go for a good 36holes hub for front radial.
26" and 48, I mean.
I've yet to see a 48h crow's foot pattern (3x +1 radial). However, i have seen 36h crow's foot, and it seems to work pretty well for the owner, with only a few well placed shots going through thus far. I can only imagine what a 48h would be like.
Unless it is hit by Crandall @ PDXII against my Phil 48h. That shot sailed right through this wheel:
I'm now running a phil kiss off 36h with a wheel cover and very happy.
you didn't say what you were looking for in a hub...light, wide, tall flanges, etc...so it's kind of just an opinion of preference you're after? I have 48h custom drilled Phil kiss off disc hubs...why? well for me it come down to widest flange to flange and tallest flange made (leaving out the chub hub). I broke two front axles, one rear axle and snapped the non-drive side bolt in the rear. Phil sent me their steel axles in place of the aluminum and I haven't ridden them enough to see if that fixed the failing axle problem (broke the frame moved on to different build with different spacing). the eno from white industries is the most versatile and allows you to slam your rear without half links and with vertical dropouts. profile won't do 48 one-offs...you gotta make do with their offered spacings for 48h. Chris king is bling but Phil is wider and taller.
oh yeah...radial laced with a disc?! you'll shoot your eye out kid.
What makes the Eno the most versatile? Why wouldn't I be able to slam anything else? Thanks for the input, you win most helpful comment so far.
i assume he's talking about the eno that is eccentric. also used to convert vertical dropout bikes to ss. don't think it comes in 120 though.
What about surly ones? Strong enough?
If you're on a budget, 48h Surly hubs are awesome. They are nicely made hubs at an affordable price. If you've got the money to afford Profile hubs or custom drilled Phil hubs then go for it. They need little to no maintenance and will last a lifetime. I've had issues with the cone nuts on my rear Surly hub but other than that I haven't noticed any problems with the strength of the shell.
The Surly Ultra New hubs have solved the adjustment issues of the older model. Plus they've replaced the threaded axle nuts with 5mm allen bolts (Phil Wood style). They look sharp and if you have the older hubs you can order a kit to upgrade the hub shells with new hardware. I just built up some of these 48h and they are pretty darn solid for the $ IMO.
Yea, the Surly 'ultra new' seem to be pretty good. I had the 'new' hubs and they were a mess. They're sitting in a pile of parts now with smashed bearings, but I'll be getting that replacement axle soon and looking forward to them being up and running and smooth again. Especially nice touch on the female axle.
I like profile hubs.
new joust build with profile racing elites, only come in 36h. but thats okay because i crossed my spokes and used wheel covers, like smart people that value the warranty, do.
3x is plenty, i went 4x just because.
204p.o.i. is INCREDIBLE.
king hubs feel loose and sloppy now.
hope trials hub is cool for dirt jumping but the undersized bearing seat makes me so angry.. and its too clacky for polo.
Buzzy profile hub makes me happy.
good luck finding hope SS in 120 spacing.
build your wheels right and you dont need 48 spokes.
Yeah I think I'm gonna go with profiles. 36h mtb disk front and 36h ss rear. I don't know what kind of weird-ass cross pattern I could get away with when it comes to disk brakes so I'll just go with a boring ol' 3x for both I think. Probably lace em to some b43s, but I heard a rumor that velocity isn't making them anymore...?
I did build a 1x racelace rear wheel for my second polo bike, and that wheel is still effing awesome. Maybe 1x would work for a disk brake, but I'm not going to test it out on a set of profiles.
Probably lace em to some b43s, but I heard a rumor that velocity isn't making them anymore...?
Really? The market dried up on B43s? I wonder if they are going to put out a new rim?
Please purchase the Rhinolyte rim design.
Those Grand Rapids guys are going to release something like that soon. I don't want to spoil their surprise though.
Keep your standards low, and morale high.
26"? 48h? Similar to Rhynolites?
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
After a few conversations with Matt GR about it they sound dope and I plan on building up a set of 48's for my Joust, so go ahead a read between the lines there.
I don't know exactly when. I would guess soon, they know that all of you guys want them. I would be surprised if they don't have them out by summer.
I have been riding Profile's 48 4x front and rear for 2 years with no problems. butter smooth, rock solid shot blocking, low pro salsa gordo rims. a spoke breaks and the rim rarely notices. Halo was the only 48h front disc i found when i was shopping...2 years ago, I'm a front v brake only. my favorite part is the 14mm slotted axle for the rear, cost no more, fits in a 10mm dropout, and can drop that 3 footer on the way to the bar after polo.
My Profiles are one of the nicer hubs I've owned. Only downside is the 5/16" allen key required to bolt/unbolt them. Don't forget it at home because chances are no one will have one at the court. This may be less of an issue in America but I doubt it.
8mm works fine, most newer multi tools have one. you can borrow mine next time.
8mm is too big. Some day I might have to hammer one in there but for now I'll stick to 5/16." Thanks for the offer.
hmm, just double checked with a stamped 8mm socket driven allen, slipped right in. maybe they changed it up for their polo hubs?
Weird. Mine won't go in without a hammer. I just have the regular 32h hubs
weird that it's not metric. i haven't seen a bike made in the last 2 decades with any parts that aren't metric.
It's Profile's shtick. They are American made so they use American standards.
worst gimmick ever. it's like the john cena of bikes. i had an ep sheet i just filled out for a set of hubs for my girlfriend for valumtimes, but i am seriously reconsidering. i have to call them now.
it's like the john cena of bikes.
OH MY GOD. That's too good.
my profile hubs, bought in december, came with 8mm bolts. some of the axle/bearing dimensions probably still adhere to the American standard measurements. they happily spaced the rear from 110mm(bmx) to 120mm when i asked.
and for mark davis, i would suggest a wider rim than B43's. eyelets helps too. tough stuff like DH DJ and BMX rims are wide for a reason.
chukkers are great but i went with cliffhangers for the width and there being less surface area to get dented by slapshots. not saying my build is the end-all be-all, best ever, im just damn proud of it and hope i can give some good advice