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European Polo Association discussion, have your say...

The following has been sent to a figure head for all the European polo scenes I have found to date (90 cities in 20 countries). Please join the discussion below and have your say regarding the formation of a European polo body.

You're receiving this email as I have you down as the figure head for your particular polo scene/city. Please let me know if you'd rather it was sent to someone else, or if you'd rather I didn't email you in the future.

Recently the Americans/Canadians formed a governing body for NA Hardcourt polo and it got some people talking about a European equivalent. Here are the main reasons for why this could be a good idea:

  • One set of sanctioned rules for all of Europe to use
  • Management of the EHBPC country selection process
  • Support/advice and (possibly) monetary support for the EHBPC hosts
  • Management of the qualification process (and allocation of number of country/city spots) for the EHBPCs
  • Creation of further European polo events (including the possibility of regional qualifications for the EHBPCs)
  • Creation of a platform for polo players to share ideas/experience and a central resource for polo in Europe
  • Further support and promotion of polo across Europe
  • A united voice for European polo (currently the NA association swamps any kind of formal setup we have in Europe)

The negatives would possibly be:

  • Lots of work for those put in charge
  • More bureaucracy within European polo
  • The potential for less transparency if things weren't handled openly/carefully
  • No support/voice for "undergound" polo, or for smaller cities/countries

This is just the starting point and it's likely that you have your own unique views and thoughts about what's best for European polo, so I'd encourage you to head over to the thread on LOBP and have your say: [link to this thread]

If you'd be so kind as to share this news/starting point with others in your scene/city then we'd be able to ensure that everyone has been considered.

Thanks for your time and hopefully see you on court soon.

hi!
there are only 10-20 people playing polo in Ukraine at the moment (most of them are in Kriviy Rih city). i think polo will be pretty much popular this summer. but since it's only very first steps of bike polo here we can't organize any kind of big movement or play on tournaments yet :)
but anyways let me know if european hardcourt polo organization will be launched.
thanks

Great idea, we already began some talks about that on pignonfixe.com but it was more about developing a league or something similar in europe. What is the first point of this email, do we have to give our point of view on this page ?
and then... ?
Thanks and take care

"One set of sanctioned rules for all of Europe to use"

Why only for Europe? I think a universal set of rules would be best for all the world, since the pinnacle event is where all the world is present. Let alone polo-tourists.

The Bisons;

One set of rules is a nice idea, but currently there is no International body for polo to develop such rules and make those important decisions. The NA association has taken on the management of a set of rules... I suggest Europe does the same (we're pretty much there already).

Ok I also just open a discussion on our french forum : http://www.pignonfixe.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=61189&page=1#Item_1

We were thinking of starting a league in France. But a national league would be too expensive for players (around France) as far as travelling is concerned.
We think, that the easiest way would be to organize tournaments (starting in March-May), a sa purpose to qualify the best french teams for the euros.

Logically, thes same teams, or best french teams listed at the Euros could be qualified for the Worlds. But that's another thing.

Things are improving, this is great news.
If we want things to get serious without being part of the cycling federation, Let's do this on our own and well.

Ready to help out.

Quote:

What is the first point of this email, do we have to give our point of view on this page ?

It would be great to hear any concerns people may have at this stage.

Also, what are people's views on the idea of regional qualifiers for the EHBPCs in 2012 rather than country/city qualification? Also how would the Euro association come together... one person per country? Does anyone have any legal skills regarding the best approach if we went ahead (association status, for profit, ltd company, etc)? Basically anything and everything is up for discussion at this stage, then I imagine it'd all come together into a few options for people to decide/vote upon, etc.

JonoMarshall wrote:
Quote:

What is the first point of this email, do we have to give our point of view on this page ?

It would be great to hear any concerns people may have at this stage.

Also, what are people's views on the idea of regional qualifiers for the EHBPCs in 2012 rather than country/city qualification? Also how would the Euro association come together... one person per country? Does anyone have any legal skills regarding the best approach if we went ahead (association status, for profit, ltd company, etc)? Basically anything and everything is up for discussion at this stage, then I imagine it'd all come together into a few options for people to decide/vote upon, etc.

First off, great job Jono.
I think a euro standard is essential, and i don't think this it's mutually exclusive for a world standard, it simply facilitates our input into that process.
I think regional qualis are good so long as there are wildcard stages at EHBPCs to help encourage smaller scenes to compete.
A voluntary associations would probably be best atm with it's own rules and memorandum which would help with transparency as everyone would be able to see whats said at meetings.
Afaik a single european company/legal entity it would be hard/impossible. In the UK Community interest Company (CIC) might be ok, it also means you have access to funding and grants. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_interest_company

i think that eeach country should have its representative int eh EU polo association.

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

i think that eeach country should have its representative int eh EU polo association.

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

I strongly believe that we can only move forward by assembling together.
Polo is not recognized in most cities as an activity, even less as a sport. A euro body would at least back up existing/emerging communities to develop further.
As the host city of the EHBPC 2011 it would have been great to count with such support.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Hi,

Glad to be part of this. First of all, I think one set of rules for the whole planet should be a primary goal. I agree the organisation should be established first though. The same goes for how we should set the slots for European and worlds.

this is good to hear.

a universal set of rules is vital, this is the only way it will be fair (and not confusing) when international teams meet is to share the same set of rules, if the proposed european rules differ that much from the NAs then perhaps we could meet in the middle .. ye know, for the greater good of polo, but i cant see it being too much of a problem

gluck

this is a nice call for "official polo". as there will be an EHBPC and WHBPC every year from now, I also think that the ruleset should be the same for the whole poloverse and the only way not to let the NAs choose for everyone without discussing, is to set up a European Board at the same level than the NA's to debate. So yes let's go on to create some kind of European Polo Fed. or some like that.

Maybe we should already focus on how?? How many people (divided per city/area/country) to control the board?How to divide Europe (city, area, country) How will people be eligible for this(again city? area? country?)

@Jono : Are the numbers you're talking(92 cities 20 coutries) related to the mail connections you already sent (I talked of it with Clement I think)?

I think NA Hardcourt is onto a good thing.

They have city reps who are accountable to their club, and regional reps who are accountable to the city reps.

This allows every city to have their opinion heard and a small group entrusted to make decisions based on this information.

You could have a rep for every country. Or group smaller countries together (obviously if they agree). This allows smaller clubs/countries to still have a voice, but not participate in the organizing, if they don't so wish - such as our Ukrainian friend above.

2 australian cents.

Yeah the first question (in my opinion) is about that point. How to divide and choose the reps. When we organised the euros last year we based our choice on cities but as Jono said there is a lot.

I think I saw that there is 7 regions in NA so I throw a question : How many regions in Europa League???

As for me, thinking in terms of cities is a bit restrictive, as now teams are mixing a lot of people from different cities and sometimes different countries. So Yeah, I'm also for a region splitting of europe, to have a certain amount of spot by region for the euro.

For the worlds I'm a bit more confused about how to select the teams... on their performance at the euro ? It means that all non qualified team at the euro will not see the worlds... Another quota thing by region ? don't know and it needs to be sort out....

Also, a europa league could also organise a vote for city candidatures for organazing the euros....
Yeah lots of things to do.....

There will be 16 euro teams at WHBPC 2011, the first 16 teams from EHBPC

yeah that's the most logical, but not what happens this year fo example.... We organise a French HBPC to know who will go the the worlds.... It gave more chances to little teams but make no real sense in terms of level and qualification. I'm for a regional championnship that will qualified to the euro and then if you are in the 16th slots you 're in the world champs. simple.

Here are some illustrations to help everyone (please excuse my outdated Euro map):

European bike polo cities
European bike polo cities by region (my arbitrary/random regions for example only)

The North/East/South/West/Central European borders could be useful for regional representation and perhaps for ensuring the European Association Committee have an even geographical spread? We'd have to decide on which countries are part of which region. Failing that we could just elect people to be in charge, without worrying about an even geographical spread (they have simply proven themselves to be up to the job, or have exceptional language skills, etc.) and simply make a rule such as "maximum of one elected committee member per country"?

The way I see it we should encourage each city/scene to have a representative. We should then either elect a European Association that's formed of two people per region (10 people total) or perhaps just have a floating number of elected committee members (between 8 and 15?) and use the regional boundaries for things like EHBPC qualifying tournaments only?

I'm eager to hear people's views on the ideal number of people who make decisions/organise things/have control as I'm sure ideally each country would like to have a representative within the European Association, but this would be 20 people at the moment and would grow over the next few years, perhaps this is ok, but perhaps it's too many to efficiently communicate and get things done?

NAH started with 21 people (3 per region) but in my opinion it's too many to be manageable, and people are considering downsizing it in the future. I think 8 to 12 is good to aim for. You could also have a mix of regional and floating, say, on per region plus one per task, like secretary/communications/website/sponsor/etc

I think the regions you drew aren't bad Jono.

Drawing lines on a map is never going to be perfect. It would may be be worth moving Switzerland into the South region in order to give more strength to the region and balance it with the others. The east looks alot weaker than the rest. Not much you can do, hopefully they will build.

Keep up the good work!

we (ukrainian teams) will do our best!
so there are 16 teams from europe are going to be on worlds. and there are 5 regions of europe. so will it be like 3 best teams from every region or the best 16 teams overall?

For the European Championships this year we are still without a European Association so Alejandro (and the Barcelona community) will be deciding how qualification for the tournament will work. They will allocate team spots to the different cities/countries how they choose and then the top 16 winning teams from the Euros will get to go to the Worlds.

It's the process for 2012 that we are discussing/brain-storming at the moment, I'm guessing most people would want the best European teams overall being represented at the Worlds, but there is a "represent every region" element to the process that would need deciding upon.

When the lines drawn on the map are so arbitrary, I'm wondering what the value of "regional representation" is. I understand where you are coming from, but you should really be sending the best teams to Worlds. We had the same discussion here in Aus.

If you really wanted to go down the regional path you could guarantee the top qualifier from each region a spot for worlds and then fill up the rest of the list by working down the list from EHBPC results.

The city maps isn't correct, I don't know any one playing in Cadiz (Rota) that club its a joke, it doesn't exist.
I organized a "national" (spain+portugal) tournament for the Barcelona's BFF, and there was people from Madrid, Gijon, Zaragoza, Valencia, Olot, Barcelona and Lisboa. In the map you just put Barna, Lisboa and some city in the north that I think is Gijon.
As well I know there is people playing in Vasc country (bilbao)

All this new cities have to be considerated in the "asociation", they are going to organize couple of tournaments for the next spring.

How did you choose the people of the e-mail list? This think have to be more clear, I didn't recive that e-mail, and I copied this discussion in our local forum, the asociation have to be inclusive and support small comunities, they are the future of polo. More cities playing, less we have to travel.

_______________________________________________________________
El Vaquilla hubiese jugado Bike Polo.

LOBP email addresses for registered clubs, Google and ~30 direct emails after I requested that each European city/club comes forward.

If you could help with sourcing more accurate info that'd be great... anyone can email jon[at]lhbpa[dot]org with their email address and club details and they go into the database, easy.

Spain does look surprisingly sparse, I agree, I couldn't find much about Spanish polo clubs online... the more info/clubs, the better. What's your site/forum?

There are a lot of cities in Spain that have just started playing and they have yet to find "the ressources"....
So far they have been adding themselves to the Iberic league (www.libp.tk), and they shouldn't take long to come to this place.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Gijon just added themselves here to the clubs map, and Bilbao did the same a few months ago. I somewhat regularly hide inactive clubs, and i'll hide Rota now. You might encourage other cities to add themselves here.

The way i have solved the communication between cities that i have formed a assosiation and have picked out of 10 cities REPS. I have contact with them and they with me. WHen it comes to contacting with the outside poloverse i do it. But that is becasue Poland isnt as large as Germany in the amounts of player. Its organisable. :)

I think that each country should have a rep or two.
i think that 20people is enough.

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

This is great news, a EU body for the promotion and organization of bike polo! And an open invitation to have your say. I'm, like lot's of others, quite new to HBP and both hyper-enthusiastic as eager to play more.

A helping hand in guiding bike polo players in the same direction will be a major improvement. I agree with all the pro's mentioned above and agree that sanctioned rules should be valid word wide. Lot's of cons are actually pros if you ask me. We're with a rapidly growing number of players, many hands make light work, specially in our era (with Internet and all). Bureaucracy does not have to be a lot more that a simple set of guidelines to follow on a smart website (e.g. register as a team, keep track of games you played with other registered teams and keep track of the outcome per game). I believe transparency is something you choose, not hope for.

I am missing some stuff though. When are you a team? And what would be the guidelines for starting one. I understand this is something you pick up at the court, but if you're the first 5 players in a region, help in how to form an 'official' team should be a number one priority, then, with enough teams, you can form a league (or leagues), it'll be easier to organize team events, attract funds, build a relation with sponsors (that help improve bike polo) etc.

Besides how to start a team, I get the feeling that people would like a smaller group of people to maintain in control (and do the work), even-though like here on the forum (or on wikipedia) we're all in control, together. I think it should be a bit more about how you are organizing bike polo in your region, where to play, what platform do you register (here, on a local forum, facebook, twitter, a wordpress, etc), how do you keep scores, what are the minimum requirements to play (court, bike, mallet, helmet, ball), where to get your equipment, do you need insurance (?), first aid, etc. I understand that it all started with a small scene of bike-enthusiasts starting to hit a ball, adapting/re-inventing existing sports rules and combining it into something that is no longer a type of subculture, but is actually becoming a popular (more main stream?) team sport. "Got a bike? Join us!" That's how I got into this.

I think 'the league of bike polo' would be the perfect place to do this. Creating the possibility for more world regions (besides NA, EU) to join and start their own organization (having help from the work that others did already), in stead of setting up your own website/group/forum, register here. I could be wrong, but this site is running Drupal (also a community effort), perhaps we can ask Dries if he would be up for sponsoring a bit more than he did already, and have some geeks help out further develop this awesome website? I'd be happy to put a Drupal sticker on my bike.

That's my (twenty) two cents, keep it up and thanks for sharing!

Ewoud wrote:

Creating the possibility for more world regions (besides NA, EU)

Hi.

hi lewis when do you come back to GVA

Not sure, I only just got back to Australia on Saturday!

finally..;)

ha!

but dont worry Lorenzo, they will kick him out in a few months... so we will see hime soon, I hope (or not)

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

agree with that, but we all have to keep our individual particularities and it begins often with a website / forum. It helps us to organize ourselves more easily in our city/country/region, and then we add our club in the league of Bike polo to share and organize with all players over the worlds. That's how it works right now.
In france people seems not to be very enthousiastic about the idea of building a european association, we start discussing about that in our forum but that's a lot of pros and cons... so not done yet ! As for me it is a natural evolution of our sport/game, so if we don't want a cycling federation or something else take it, we have to organize it ourself. Not only on forums/website/emails but officialy and by region.

The Jono's map is a good start, let's discuss and share about it, as some countries are more close to others... France / switzerland for example....

As for all clubs in this map, the best solution is to ask everybody to registrer here on League of Bike Polo (as Ewoud sais) and then we will all have an idea of the whole Bike polo scene in the worlds.

I think country divisions are not obligatory. Maybe it could be easier to move to another country than to the other side of yours. Example from Grenoble to GVA or to Rouen is not the same trip. I dunno but if we think in regions, maybe we can set up our proper frontiers... around big polo communities/centers : London, Paris, Genève, Barça,....

A very important point if we wanna setup qualification processes for EHBPC and organizing them, is how the city/community is able to handle a big size polo tournament (especially in terms of courts) matching the Association's standards.

right, going to Rouen is the end of the world for us in Grenoble, and Gva is so closed so yeah why not building community around big bike polo center. Good idea.
For the organization of the EHBPC and the courts, if we build up a commmunity or a european association we will have more support from the officials and organization and funding will be easier.

I pretty much like the idea,agree about the rules should me made once for all,just dont understand that... if you leave in small country,where polo its still new compare to other places,like we in Dublin,I heard to play in europeans we gonna be consider as a one country with UK... and we not the only once that gonna be affected... to be fair every country,not matter how small is it,should have option to send their own team to represent their own country,after all we live in free europe as far as I now,so we should consider everyone and give equal chance for all... Thanks paka pa

BTW i just updated the region pages so that there's a list of European tournaments separate from other discussions, over at http://leagueofbikepolo.com/region/europe

So what are we doing now?

Comitee issues:

0)Can we have an european body, and is that relevant?
1)Have we enough time to form an european body before 2011-2012 "season" (after whbpc) ?
2)Does this comitee should be by country, regions? or not specially geographically representative, just made by a small number involved people, choosen by the european community?

3)Is this comitee gonna be a legislative organization?`an executive one? both?

4)How big?

my opinion:

0) Don't really know. Jono put a lot of good points in the first post of the thread between the pros and cons of a comitee.
For now with don't have any body, and things are moving forward without too many problems. We don't are North american too, we don't speak the same language, don't live in same country etc... But for a lot of other reason, an european body can be really helpful: legitimation, organization, ruleset, selection etc...

1) Don't think we can't make it for this season, but tryin' if people agree on the idea couldn't be a bad thing.

2) Last solution is for me the best. If we choose to form an european body, don't think we have to make geographical rep' system. We can imagine that everyone intersted post his view about all this, and get elected by the european community. I prefere to elect a londonian who have the same idea about all this than a genevian who think the opposite.

3) Don't know yet about that. Give lot of power to this comitee is great for make thing moving forward, but loosing control from the people. Be only an executive who apply the opinion of the majority is more democratic, but slower.

4) between 5 and 10 people.

0) Yes, yes.
1) Planning this depends on the goals we set. It's plenty of time to start a non-profit, it's a bit short if we plan to write and execute some 5 year vision for EU polo including the necessary resources.
2) Shouldn't this be based on what type of knowledge is needed to fulfill the tasks supporting 1?
3) I think in many ways it has to be both, if you want it to be community-driven.
4) How big depends on the goals this association aims for and what you mean by that question. A European Bike Polo Association would represent 27 countries, I guess bigger, at least.

Perhaps we could outline some of the goals we'd like to achieve, or even what type of organization would be needed to reach those?

0) I think we really need an European body and pronto, we need to sort out a proper system to qualified for the Europeans Champs and a commun set of rules. I think the language is not really a barrier, we will can work around it.

1) I know this would not happen for 2011, and maybe not even for 2012, but I will like to see it up and running for 2013

2) I think a mix between geographical and people involve will be the best. It is not necesarry that every scene or town or region must have a rep, but I would like to see people from different places to be involve.

3) I think this group needs to have power, if not what is it for? there are not gonna have infinite power over the day by day of polo in every ciyu, if not in isseus that Europa as a polo comunity need to solve. This possitions will be voted for, so if you vote for someone you should trust that person in his/her view of how to run the show, there is not point to elect a rep if you dont like how he/she see things, but once you elect someone you should be happy with what that person is deciding, so I dont undesrtand the "loosing control from the people"

4) 10-12 people

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

We need a body ASAP in my opinion, it's only a matter of time until organisation at a European level becomes "crucial" to the development of the Euros. There are many other positives too (info sharing, rules, standardisation, archiving, growth of Euro polo, monetary support, sponsor sharing at a European level, etc).

I'd like to see 5-10 people running the Euro body (less is more in my experience, all processes and decisions would have to be completely transparent to every European polo player). The officials would be voted for from a pool of volunteers/club reps. The first stage is to get the pool of club reps/volunteers together and to agree to allow someone to organise the formation of the Euro body (paper work, process and overview of initial vote).

I'd volunteer to do this but am swamped with London/UK polo at the moment, I'd like to see some volunteers from the more established scenes come forward... if there are no volunteers then there'll be no Euro body, simple.

If things start moving we can easily have everything in place for 2012, it's not that difficult. But if we want to wait till 2013 (and beyond), then fair enough.

As you can imagine im pretty intersted in being part of this thing.

You'd get my vote!

Clement for President

Clement for mad, benevolent dictator.... There's no power like true love of polo.

T

so, what needs to be done? I can help, Jono?

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

We just need a "starter list" of 5-10 volunteers to get the ball rolling amongst themselves (flesh out what's needed from the EHBPA, etc). We then propose a solution to the European polo community as a whole.

1. Clement
2. Rik
3. Jono

JonoMarshall wrote:

We just need a "starter list" of 5-10 volunteers to get the ball rolling amongst themselves (flesh out what's needed from the EHBPA, etc). We then propose a solution to the European polo community as a whole.

1. Clement
2. Rik
3. Jono

4. Giv

Team Sophie - Switzerland

1. Clement
2. Rik
3. Jono
4. Giv
5. Gabes

I'm definitely down for helping to write up a proposal/constitution and am also keen to incorporate a refereeing body into the EHBPA.

i have some time on my hands, would be happy to get involved.

1. Clement
2. Rik
3. Jono
4. Giv
5. Gabes
6. Agata

Jono, am i correct in thinking this is a provisional list, with the final set of people to be voted later by the Euro community ?

Either way a set of rules and practices would hit the nail on the head. And finally something to keep those pesky qualifier tourneys in check.

Absolutely, the individuals above would just try to create a proposal initially... then you can try and source feedback from the European community and go from there. Eventually X number of reps (or whatever internal system was chosen) would be elected and the EHBPA would be born.

For now I have a lot of business organizing the German Championship but afterwards I would be glad to help

1. Clement
2. Rik
3. Jono
4. Giv
5. Gabes
6. Agata
7. Florian

Florian wrote:

For now I have a lot of business organizing the German Championship but afterwards I would be glad to help

1. Clement
2. Rik
3. Jono
4. Giv
5. Gabes
6. Agata
7. Florian

8. Alejandro.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

we play the itals this we. will'try to found an italian rep. (hope english spoken better than me..)
:-=

tobia wrote:

we play the itals this we. will'try to found an italian rep. (hope english spoken better than me..)
:-=

Scimmia (IT)
... at your disposal!

+1 for scimmia.

Here's the man.

1. Clement
2. Rik
3. Jono
4. Giv
5. Gabes
6. Agata
7. Florian
8. Alejandro
9. Hannes

1. Clement
2. Rik
3. Jono
4. Giv
5. Gabes
6. Agata
7. Florian
8. Alejandro
9. Hannes
10. William

CALL ME DADDY

1. Clement (CH)
2. Rik (DE)
3. Jono (UK)
4. Giv (?)
5. Gabes (UK)
6. Agata (PL)
7. Florian (DE)
8. Alejandro (ES)
9. Hannes (DE)
10. William (FR)
11. Mark (UK)

1. Clement (CH)
2. Rik (DE)
3. Jono (UK)
4. Giv (CH)
5. Gabes (UK)
6. Agata (PL)
7. Florian (DE)
8. Alejandro (ES)
9. Hannes (DE)
10. William (FR)
11. Mark (UK)

1. Clement (CH)
2. Rik (DE)
3. Jono (UK)
4. Giv (CH)
5. Gabes (UK)
6. Agata (PL)
7. Florian (DE)
8. Alejandro (ES)
9. Hannes (DE)
10. William (FR)
11. Mark (UK)
12. Scimmia (IT)

Scimmia wrote:

1. Clement (CH)
2. Rik (DE)
3. Jono (UK)
4. Giv (CH)
5. Gabes (UK)
6. Agata (PL)
7. Florian (DE)
8. Alejandro (ES)
9. Hannes (DE)
10. William (FR)
11. Mark (UK)
12. Scimmia (IT)

Gio (IT)

and now, what happens next? how many reps do we need? will there be a quota for each country? should we elect in any way?
how about meeting in person in barca and discuss a couple of things?

flo

Let's chat in Barcelona.

Im not gonna be there, but count me in!
Im gonna spend 3 months in USA from July to September. Maybe a good way to connect IRL parts of polo world. Can't wait to see thing moving.

Have a fuckin' good time in BCN.

ok

We can have a MEETING around the court on THURSDAY during the wildcard.

Points to discuss:
Qualis to Euro
- how a player can or not play in different qualis around Europe (same for Nationals Championship)
- how to share the slots for Euros 2012

Separate Qualis and Nationals
-why? share opinions about this
-best format to use for both of those competitions (maybe do the same in every countries?)
-why Germany used a strange format for their Nationals ahah

Rules
-update about some new situations (block and t-boning, mallet under the wheel and over the handlebar, etc..)

Also maybe speak quikly about the tournaments planning for next season to dispatch it correctly.

If you see something else please write here to prepare the meeting, thanks!

CALL ME DADDY

Personally I think this is jumping the gun a little.

First you need a European body that would actually be able to tackle any of the above.

Therefore I'd like to see (by way of a vote/discussion during the Euros) that the majority of polo players think that forming a European association is a good idea for the future of European polo. Let people voice their concerns (if any) and we'll talk through them and double check that this would be the best way forward.

Then I personally think the next step is to pull together a representative for each country/scene and we'll ask Kev to setup a Euro Association private forum here within LOBP (this is how NAH works). I'd also like to see a temporary acting secretary for the potential association that is responsible for nudging the country/scene reps (through emails or similar) and keeping them active/involved/working through this process (basically an admin/organising/management type role). The country/scene reps would then come to the European community with a few options for the formation of the association, including a constitution (or equivalent), voting procedure, aims and objectives, etc.

Then if everyone agrees, we all vote on the type of body/organisation/setup, get all the paperwork sorted, elect some officials and get on to the fun stuff (completely transparently, but with a definite process and sense of leadership/direction to work within).

The alternative is what we already do now, online communication without real structure or an objective.

I'd like to see central Europe lead the process in the early days somewhat as I think they have the most European-wide understanding of things and will be better equipped to deal with language issues, etc.

Clement would be a good candidate for overseeing the formation of a Euro association in my opinion.

It would be great if each scene/country thinks about how a European body might effect/help them, so we've all got some thoughts in our heads pre-discussion (this also means we can have an innovative and interesting discussion and not just a "let's do X, Y and Z" without first giving everyone a chance to think/speak).

I agree with you on the way to buid or not a European Comity.

Excuse my english, simple and I try to go directly to the essential, so when I purpose a meeting on Thursday, it was of course with everybody, not only with people who wants to be in a maybe future comity.
Just to discuss together about some points no so clear..

CALL ME DADDY

on Thursday I have to play the wildcard-T....

well well well, now the euros are over and we didn't get the chance to talk at all (except for all the inofficial fun and trash talk ...--> http://vimeo.com/25763835 ha ha). I personally like will's points of discussion but also agree with jono (the fuckin' master of summing things up and organizing) concerning the "paperwork" and including everybody. so what is the next step?
I'd say we write a letter to the national communities and let them know what we are planing and what's in for them. then collect the answers and reactions and maybe even have representatives for each country (region?). these reps then can meet and talk things through while communicating with their countries/areas.

greets to you all, it has been a wonderful week in barca - flo

Agreed, I talked to lots of people about it, but the meeting didn't materialise as most people were busy (myself included). The general feeling was that a Euro association would be a good thing and just needs enough committed organisers and transparency.

Next steps: Elect an unofficial central person (I vote Clement!) and they can speak directly with regional/country/city reps (I can pass on the mailing list) and do the research/ground work for formulating the governing body, etc?

Could it be an idea to use a wiki (or similar) in stead of mailing letters? Helps in transparent communication, collecting answers/reactions and perhaps to spread some of the work-load.

I enjoy following these developments, and I'm very much looking forward to see the initial plan and scope! TY

I vote Jono (no offense, clement, but democracy needs more than one candidate ;-))

Thanks but sorry, London's keeping me plenty busy enough, declined.

Thanks to think about me for this. this days I'm pretty occupied by hanging around na and playing polo ( 3 months, from now to Seattle). I think I can handle a good part of the coordination work, and by the way I can also try to understand a lil bit more how the na association is working.

And even without any clear strucure, the soon as people are answering this questions the better it is:
Which cities step up for organize ehbpc 2012
Which cities step up for organize whbpc 2012 ( assuming that it's gonna probably be in Europe)
Which cities step up for organize a major tourney ( who can be sanctioned as a qualification step if we choose this kind of system)
Which cities step up for organize regional or national qualifications

Ok for the coordination we need one person, but to take decisions we need a comity, I agree with Flo, one person for each region or for each important city playing polo.

Personnally, I won't be able to assume the coordination, so I'm not candidate because of my english, but I would like to be a part of a European Comity if I'm elected by my region/country.

Which cities step up for organize regional or national qualifications
Grenoble is speaking about organize French Qualies 2012 (depending of the number of teams)

CALL ME DADDY

I would say that 10 or more people would be too much. In my opinion, the best way would be to have a small committee (less than 10 person) to discuss on topics such as ruleset, court size, blablabla,...

Thing is that every year an EHBPC is gonna happen.Maybe we (or the committee, or someone, or something) should think about standardize this tourney (as i said, ruleset, courts, etc,...). Like everything the EHBPC demands, how many courts, how big, surface, balls, rules, could or should be set by the comittee.

Then the local organizing crew could focus on : setting up the spot, sponsors, housing, food, etc,...

I think the first job for the comittee would be to set a "package" wich would include the standards needed to organize EHBPC and also manage the bids/city election for each year championship.

To start a discussion about an European body/committee, it will be a good idea to encourage every country's representative to make a census, to obtain statistical information about a polo-players population.

This will help to understand how big that committee will be (I can agree that 10 persons are enough) and how we are going to decide who has to be part of it assuring that every little polo-community will have a coordinator that will report for them and at the meantime supporting them.

Here below (based on LOBP) we have the 21 European countries where at least one polo community exists but I don't know much more about ...

Austria 3
Belgium 3
Croatia 1
Czech Republic 2
Denmark 1
Finland 1
France 14
Germany 20
Hungary 3
Ireland 1
Italy 15
Netherlands 5
Norway 2
Poland 6
Portugal 2
Russia 1
Spain 9
Sweden 2
Switzerland 9
Ukraine 3
United Kingdom 15

Nice.
So now the plan is i think every people who told that they are motivated to do something (see list in first posts), have to find a rep for each club in their country.
Every rep gonna have the job to keep people in touch about what's happening for the european polo. And they gonna give us back the feed back about it.

Make an example with switzerland.
Gimmefive find a rep for every clubin switzerland, he told them about this thread and all the stuff that can happens. In a second time, after having all this rep stuf from the major part of europe, we can send to the rep questions, for example, first of one: "do you want that an european association exist based on this kind of system (to determine).
Like that we can begin to work with a good legitimicy.

After that we can determine how big gonna be the commitee a nd how is gonn work ( like Eddy say for example.)

Just a point aout the futur system
As i can understand for the NA system, the project that they have now is to go into a membership system, who is really helpfull to make votations, statistics and bureaucracy easiest.
For example, the cost for a card in European Association is 5 euros. In your club, there is 8 players intersted in being part of the association and play the major tourney (like qualifications and EHBPC). In your club 4 other guys didn't care. So you just pay 8x5 euros, take the name of each folks. And then, when you have to vote about something, you know exactly how many members are in this club, and how many vote they can have.
This system is great, because if you have to vote on something, for example the size of the courts, you can count every vote pro and cons. If in your club you are 20 for x courts and 21 for y courts, we don't gonna say this club is for y court, but 21 people are for y and 20 for x.
Like this too, the European Association can have a good amount of money to help cities who gonna orgnanize next ehbpc.

Ok but even if we put our names on the list, we shouldn't be elected by our country before say we are rep??

I'm ok for the 5€ for each player who want to take part of the European association/discussion.

I start to speak about the rep election with the french community..

CALL ME DADDY

For now The most simple thing is to dissociate rep from committee. We can t imagine that every country gonna
Have a rep who gonna be in the comitee. For now just thinking about how communicate. And the simple thing to do is each city/club choose someone in which they trust as messenger. Then we cam began to talk about wha we have to do, etc, like this we can have feed back from every clubs.
All the ideas that I post before are just ideas, we can't really began to work without the positive answer from clubs reps. If we try to do the stuff to quickly all gonna fall down quickly too.

Starting soon to find city/club reps.

I'll get all the UK stuff done and sent on to Clement post-London Open, we have most of that information already (we've just got to nail down the regional reps for rest of UK).

we should kick our ass...

I need to kick my ass. Im back in Europe now, after 3 months oversea.

Jono just gave me the whole contact for England Bike polo. Im gonna need that from every country I think.

Im also gonna need help for sure, as Geneva trying to post a Bid for hosting Wolrds in 2012, im gonna be under pressure for this too..

I know it's not much, but you guys have my full support for hosting worlds!

The Bisons;

ok, clement, what exactly do you need? emails from every player n germany or every city or just one area rep?
and when do we vote for reps? we need to think about that before the next season starts.
and good luck to everybody in konstanz. ;-) flo

Sorry for being silent again.
Give me name for aera or city rep. Just to be sure to have to chance to contact the major part of europolo word.

Italians rep contacts collected and sanded to Clement.

Nice one Italy, maybe we need a list of all the European polo countries and who's submitted their city reps to Clement?

Here you go:
Austria
Belgium
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
France
Germany
Hungary
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

Clement, I've also shared with you a European polo player database that you can use to chase the different countries/cities, some may not check this thread, etc (this list is possibly out of date but is better than nothing).

Jono, don´t you have the representative contacts for some european countries already?

I had some city contacts (direct emails), but not many, Clement now has them.

The onus is on each country to supply a list of all their polo cities and source a name and email for each city representative (it's likely that a country representative will then be chosen/elected from the city representatives).

For example, many UK cities had no idea this was going on, but after some prodding from London are now in the loop and can have a voice moving forwards...

My hope is that Clement will end up publishing a list of the ~100 European polo cities, the country representatives will then be selected, we'll then write a constitution and be legit in no time (if the countries send on their city list ASAP).

The communication/decision making is likely to go top down: EHBPA body (~20 elected country representatives) -> city representatives (~100 people) in whatever forum they choose (probably our existing forums) -> ~8,000 Euro polo players.

Communication then comes back up again too: Average polo player -> City representative -> Country representative -> EHBPA

The city/country info is also a great resource moving forwards, it's a pretty crucial stage in my opinion (some cities/countries may have no interest in a Euro association forming at all).

Sounds good!

.

ukrainian contacts sent to Clement

belgian contacts sent to Clément!

Austria
Belgium - Sent
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
France
Germany
Hungary
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

Germany is working on it

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

France sent me also some rep names. But not for every city.

Austria
*Belgium - Sent
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
*France -Sent
Germany
Hungary
Ireland
*Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
*Ukraine - Sent
*United Kingdom - Sent

Shall we began to make a list of people intersted in participating in the comitee? or are we gonna use the one made in this thread few post before?

One of my biggest issue with the european comitee or association, is how are we gonna elect the comitee, how many people, and how representative it need to be. For example, allow one people from every country to be in mean that every country is equal?
Do we really need something as one country one vote?

I think countries are (historically at least) a good way to add another tier to the organisation, so we'd have: Euro polo players -> Euro polo cities -> Euro polo countries -> EHBPA.

The acting committee/individuals/group would need to be less than ~20 in number to actually get anything done, so perhaps 4 (or 5) country representatives rotate in/out of the core working group and are held accountable by the others, etc. Obviously they can ask for more/less help by the others as needed and would be able to task others with specific objectives (for example: Germany can we have your bid for the Euros by XX date you will be working with this person as they have previous experience with organising it).

We could elect representatives within a private forum on here and see how that kind of process works out? The first year should just be about forming, sorting the Euros and sharing our ideas/experience I reckon... there are bound to be teething problems initially but we'll get there.

surely countries like UK , Germany, France ect... will have more "weight" that countries that just start playing polo.

I will say have 12 member in the committee, 6 permanent, and 6 temporary (or share by two countries, they can choose who take the place for this year kind of thing)
something in the style of the UN security Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations#Security_Council)

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

YES, let's call it the
European Security Council about Polo Empowerment (ESCAPE)

but seriously, kind of like the idea.
at least it seems make sense to handle some of the (polo-poeple-wise) smaller countries as one region, in order for the commitee not getting too large.
maybe even 5/5 not 6/6

that being said, it (maybe unfortunately, maybe not) makes a lot of sense to draw region borders @ country/language borders, as every drawing a line is at some point a brute/inappropriate cut, but these are just the easiest. Although it should be less about nationality tan rather what city you're living/playing.

uolmo .Clement. wrote:

France sent me also some rep names. But not for every city.

some????

how many do you need per country? I though you only needed one

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

City rep I guess

I think we need one rep per city. But if people want it and are sure that they can contact the whole country easily, maybe one or two is enough...
I don't know...

hungarian contact sent to Clément!

Austria
Belgium - Sent
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
France
Germany
Hungary -Sent
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

The Bisons

sry... twice

The Bisons

Austria - sent
Belgium - Sent
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
France
Germany
Hungary -Sent
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

france is currently sorting out the number of representative issue, because of the high number of city playing in france we had a lot of people interested into getting invested into this.
at least 7 city rep will be elected for the french comitee ,so i guess 1 or two of them will rotate and take care of the euro tasks .

Austria - sent
Belgium - Sent
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
France
Germany - sent
Hungary -Sent
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

Thanks for sending me this, things are moving.

There's for me the main question for the first association year:

Should we have a national representation structure comitee, or an elected one, without national basis.

1)National representation:
We wait to have all the name of the contacts of every city-club. Then we can try to know how big is the community. After that, every community choose a number of rep, one for small country and more for bigger. (this could also be one per country but more voice for a rep of a big country).
Then we get a 20 member (or more) comitee for EHBPA.

Pro: Representative of nationalities. Pretty clear and logical.
Cons: big comitee. Hard to make it happens quickly, and hard to make it work well.

2) Elected comitee:
We pick a time limit to comunity to send us a number of player in cities, and a rep per city (or at least a way to be sure that every body know what happens).
Then every people in europe can put himself on an electoral list. for example 20 people who want to be involved.
They put a small amount of information about the way they see polo in europe, the EHBPA, the ehbpc, the ruleset (cheatermallets bannisher or not :) etc...
And then people in the whole europe vote for a list of 10 or around people (between 5 and 12 in my opinion).
This people, let say 10 people, are the EHBPAComitee for one year. It can have 1 or more people from the same country in it. That's not nationally rep.

Pro: Easy to make work. People vote for a vision of polo, not for a rep of their nationality. Smaller comitee
Cons: Maybe no rep from several country so unfair in a way.

What's your opinion about it?

P.s.
This is for the first year, 2012 i think... that's why im clearly for the second way to do it. really faster to make it happens.

elected comitee is the best in any way

elected comitee in my opinion too

But comitee should count 9 or 11 people for example (odd number), in case of voted decision.

CALL ME DADDY

As we just had a big election in Germany, and have (nearly) all the city-reps toghether,
I would definitely prefer Clement's suggestion "1) National representation".

I can't see the relation between the parts of your sentence... You can be the national rep and being in the euro comitee

I also prefer a elected committee. Makes decisions much easier. In the future when the scene getting bigger we can also switch to the other option.

My personal mind is that right now, in this first phase, we should use a "National representation" system and after we could switch to elected committee (if the national rap. sys. looks to be too slow and bureaucratic).

The risk to ignore little country, rooky polo nation and periphery-polo exactly in the building-up of the EuroOrganization is too hi.
A little elected committee will work faster, but faster is not synonym of better.

In any case, minorities gonna have smaller weight in the system. Im not talking about forgetin' them. I my idea everybody gonna have the right to give a vote for the euro comitee, and choose someone who think the same about polo.
I prefere the idea of voting for a french people who think like me about futur of polo as have a ref who just represente myself as a part of a "country".

For me faster in this cases is really often synonym of better, because bigger gonna be synonym of nothin'...

And i think that tryin' the national rep system then switch if it don't work is impossible, a national rep system gonna be too hard to put on to let him down after...

How a national rep system gonna work?
-One vote per country?
-Many votes for bigger country? how many? what's a bigger country?

I see the smaller comitee solution as a way to choose into a huge panel of people across europe, some folks that we know and are trustable and efficient, because of what they did, because of their experience as players, because of their experience in tourney organization etc. For example, im clearly gonna give vote for hannes or jono if they promote themselve into it. This is the best way to have a comitee who gonna work well, and with people that you gonna know in it.

National representation. at least for now.

It's hard enough for a National rep to get in touch w/ all communities, but way better than for one committee trying to reach all cities @ once.

maybe the National reps can vote for a smaller "working" group, or s/th. but the chance of missing some scenes is already high on an National --> citiy-base.

""It's hard enough for a National rep to get in touch w/ all communities, but way better than for one committee trying to reach all cities @ once.""
As i see it, the small comitee gonna be in touch often with all the national reps. Also, the national rep gonna have the power to report some demand to the comitee.

And about missing a scene, i think that country or city who gonna want to be in gonna move. And yes we gonna probably miss some folks around europe, but that's not a big deal in my mind, small and young comunitee have to grown a little bit...

My point is also that, right now, that's the orgnanizers discretions to make the rules, allow spots, choose number of courts, everything... without any official help and official game and organizing rules and process. So this idea of a small elected comitee gonna help a lot and create emulation, more than only players VS organizers boards fights.
I can't imagine a national representative system workable and efficient for 2012.¨

The things that this comitee should be in charge for the first year is:

EHBPC:
-Help finding a location, make a vote system happens
-Fixing and update ruleset, or find a way to make it.
-Put some rules about organizing the EHBPC
-Choose a selection system for the slot alocation

EHBPA:
-Make a big brainstorming during the year about how people see the EHBPA in the futur, and how it should work
-Find a way to work for first year or maybe more ( boards, meeting, etc...)

i think it would be a good idea to split europe into 8-11 regions and get/vote region-reps. so the comittee won't be too big, but still there would be the advantages of the "national representation" system. also with this kind of system the weight of the different countries could be balanced beforehand. say you take three smaller countries as one region with one rep, who has the same weight in the comittee as the rep of one big country.
the time-problem is an issue, though. the vote of region-reps should not take too much time when the countries who did'nt vote their national-reps yet, get their asses up and all the contact-information together..

There is 20 country in the list here, do you have an idea of how to get around 10? who gonna be linked together, and does it make sense in any way?

What's the advantage for you of the national representation? Is this advantage always true if some country are paste togheter?

When im talking about time, im not only talking about how to elect the comitee but also how this comitee gonna work.

uolmo .Clement. wrote:

There is 20 country in the list here, do you have an idea of how to get around 10? who gonna be linked together, and does it make sense in any way?

my first idea of how to make a list of around 10 was something like this:

France
United Kingdom + Ireland
Germany
Spain + Portugal
Scandinavia (Denmark + Norway + Sweden)
Italy + Croatia
Switzerland + Austria
Benelux (Netherlands + Belgium)
Poland + Hungary
Czech Republic + Ukraine + Russia

this list is NOT overthought a lot! i don't know if these "regions" reflect the amount of cities or people playing there in any ways. it's rather made geographical- and/or language-wise.

uolmo .Clement. wrote:

What's the advantage for you of the national representation? Is this advantage always true if some country are paste togheter?

that's a good question. actually i didn't think about this a lot before i made that suggestion. but i think there are some advantages in a regional representation. first, some of these "regions" are already organized quite well. like benelux for example, they have there own league there, so i think they already have some experience in communicating with each other, which could be useful for the EHBPA when it comes to fast decisions.
second, when you do a regional representation system, you make sure that people from all areas in europe actually take part in decisions and discussions and act for certain region's interests. in europe, there are the "big countries", who are well established for several years, have a lot of good players and teams and have people, who want to organise stuff. that is cool! but i think it would be a nice thing if there also would be some other people in the EHBPA from "smaller" bikepolo countries, like the scandinavian countries for example.

regarding the national rep system you wrote earlier:

uolmo .Clement. wrote:

"Pro: Representative of nationalities. Pretty clear and logical."

What did you mean with that? perhaps these thoughts could be expanded to a regional rep system..?

i don't know if there are more advantages for a regional rep system. perhaps others do? and i don't know if these advantages i said are still true if countries are pooled, especially the second one. the region-thing was just an idea and is perhaps worth discussing about.

well, only if we have time for it.. ;)

I agree that an elected committee could work, but that's actually a pretty neat solution for a 10-part split.

Advantages: smaller scenes still have a say, take advantage of pre-existing communication forums/methods and each Euro representative is held accountable by the scenes/countries they represent.

The danger of an elected committee is polarisation when making decisions and no "real" knowledge/input behind the decisions each individual makes (they are "trusted experts" rather than "regional representatives", etc)

Both solutions could work though and it will be easy to create a constitution around either voting in an elected committee, or swapping out regional representatives.

It sounds as if everyone is agreed on a 8-10 person committee, perhaps 9 people is ideal (no vote split as mentioned up the thread).

I think we should keep an assemblee made by the whole rep from every country, and elected a small comitee for making the huge part of the work. The rep comitee could ask to put some point into the debat, can reject some decision, and promote some referendum that the community they rep want to be disscuss'. The reps comitee has also the task to be the media between the small comitee and and communities.

But im pretty sure that a big rep comitee for making the association working, at least for first times, is a bad idea. Way too heavy to move. Na association are moving back from this system after testing it.

uolmo .Clement. wrote:

I think we should keep an assemblee made by the whole rep from every country, and elected a small comitee for making the huge part of the work.

+1

But, how you vote for this? how you know who is EHBPA member?

Are the representatives assemblee electing the small cometee or all the EHBPA members doing it?

I think both (reps and cmall cometee) have to be choose by all the euro comunity. For my first question i have no answer.

_______________________________________________________________
El Vaquilla hubiese jugado Bike Polo.

JonoMarshall wrote:

I agree that an elected committee could work, but that's actually a pretty neat solution for a 10-part split.

Advantages: smaller scenes still have a say, take advantage of pre-existing communication forums/methods and each Euro representative is held accountable by the scenes/countries they represent.

The danger of an elected committee is polarisation when making decisions and no "real" knowledge/input behind the decisions each individual makes (they are "trusted experts" rather than "regional representatives", etc)

Both solutions could work though and it will be easy to create a constitution around either voting in an elected committee, or swapping out regional representatives.

It sounds as if everyone is agreed on a 8-10 person committee, perhaps 9 people is ideal (no vote split as mentioned up the thread).

x2

Scimmia wrote:
JonoMarshall wrote:

I agree that an elected committee could work, but that's actually a pretty neat solution for a 10-part split.

Advantages: smaller scenes still have a say, take advantage of pre-existing communication forums/methods and each Euro representative is held accountable by the scenes/countries they represent.

The danger of an elected committee is polarisation when making decisions and no "real" knowledge/input behind the decisions each individual makes (they are "trusted experts" rather than "regional representatives", etc)

Both solutions could work though and it will be easy to create a constitution around either voting in an elected committee, or swapping out regional representatives.

It sounds as if everyone is agreed on a 8-10 person committee, perhaps 9 people is ideal (no vote split as mentioned up the thread).

x3

I prefer one rep for every nation for the first rendezvous

Elected committee for me, please

Rik
Berlin Bike Polo 2010
London Bike Polo 2008 - 2010

Rik wrote:

Elected committee for me, please

+1

first things to do from committee is collect a little bit of money from all euro players (10 euro ? maybe more? ) and buy three stock hockey boards courts (or maybe on wood?). Leave the boards in the middle of germany and when the nations do a tourney the organizers pay only transport.
crazy idea?

Concerning commitee: with an election, we don't have to decide geographic representation or not, because the community by voting will decide it. Each person will choose if he/she want a geographic rep. or give his/her voice to people they trust.

Tobia's idea: I'm crazy like you. I don't know exactly how but could be awesome. Problem, people who pay will want to have a garanty to use it ( I mean for EHBPC for example slots are limited, but yes courts could be available all year long). Just for information, when you played football or as for me ice hockey, we had to pay a very very expensive license each season (250€), so I can easily imagine pay 100€ one time to have 3 great courts that everybody can use when needed after that. Imagine 64 teams with 3 players paying 100€/pers = 19200€ (then sponsor can complete). After that, there will be a less expensive euro license for each player just to pay the place we use to stock the 3 courts. More interested in hockey boards than wood by the way.

CALL ME DADDY

+ 1 for elected comittee. I'd rather vote for someone who shares some of my views on Bikepolo than have someone from my country who doesn't represent what I think is best just because we speak the same language.

I also like the idea to buy boards everyone could use for oganizing a tourney. Would make things a lot easier for most cities.

+1 elected comitee, and yall should really start to worry about where i m going to win this year EHBPC ,yo .

i might miss something but i dont see why we should have a national representated comitee ? its obvious that all the community(even those outside of the comitee) will still have their opinion about this and that.
to me electing this comitee is about putting together a bunch of experienced polo geeks who have already managed big events/ local scene.

for exemple, somebody stated that it would be nice to have smaller community like the scandinavian .

except coppenhaguen i havent heard a lot of tourney going on in this area (oslo, helsinki).i remember alejandro struggling to get every small community a designated spot for the euro and sweden had one but didn't / couldn't show up.
on the other hand, we had already 3 cities that have organized the EHBPC and by thus proved their solid organizing skillzzz :barcelona, geneva and london. you can add berlin for the 2010 worlds . why bother ? you take the already experienced people, put them together , eventually add the new city in where the EHBPC will be held , and you have your comitee.

if there is a national representation, and it comes to a big euro poll every time there is something to be done,i think the same "experienced cities" will have the most weight anyway because people will know that they have experienced thoses issues before.

Big +1 or x2 to the idea that this organization should consist mostly (but perhaps not entirely) of people who have organized large events. These people are do-ers, not just talkers, And their primary work is to help ensure that events get better, despite increased competition for registration etc. I sometimes joke that NAH should change its name to NATO, the North American Tournament Organizers union. Of course there is more to a governing body than tournaments, but tournaments (and rules) will always be the biggest source of controversy.

Ha!. And I add my agreement here. Teamwork with successful organizers should bring new levels of success to a new city. I can't wait to learn where it is that I'll definitely want to go to next year! (edit: after Milwaukee)

Devin

fully unrelated (think it's a poem about a breakup) but this is one of my all time favorite lines: "The Dreamers ride against the Men of Action Oh see the Men of Action falling back" Here's Martha Wainright singing it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMgYxYYqbHc

--
Credo quia absurdum

x2
especially for better sounding acronyms :)
(I hat the sound of these ..hbpc.. tongue twisters)

In France, a comitee have been elected by the french community in november, in order to take some decisions concerning rules/format/qualis/etc easily.

Find here the members of the French comitee:

Hugo (Paris)
Will (Grenoble)
Woods (Rouen)
Paulo (Toulouse)
Greg (Paris)
Norbert (Nantes)
Martin (Lyon)

We decided to give a task to each member, Greg and me will be in relation with the European Comitee and maybe take part of it (depending of the way European people want to do it).

CALL ME DADDY

Great work guys.

London Bike Polo

Here's the Spanish comitee.

A Coruña: Sebastian.
Alicante: Dani.
Barcelona: Bernat.
Bilbao: Guillaume.
Gijón: Pelayo.
Madrid: Hector.
Palma: Medir.
Vitoria: Endika.
Zaragoza: Pablo.

Spanish representative: Alejandro.

*Somebody please think of the children!!*

Nice one.

Austria - Sent
Belgium - Sent
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
France - Sent
Germany - Sent
Hungary -Sent
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain - Sent
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

German representative: Hannes (Karlsruhe)

FYI the list of all city reps I'm in touch with:

Berlin: Adam & Rik
Bielefeld: Daniel & David
Büppel: Franky
Dresden: Maik
Dortmund: Marc
Düsseldorf: Alex
Frankfurt: Mo
Gießen: Jupp
Hamburg: Robert & David
Hannover: Flo
Heilbronn: Flip
Karlsruhe: Hannes
Kiel: Julian
Köln: Hagen
Konstanz: Andi & Saade
Leipzig: Richard
Mannheim: Jon & Steffen
München: Anja & Angie
Münster: Johanna
Nürnberg: Jürgen
Ulm: Olaf

Germany rolls deep! Well done on sorting everything out and you'll be a great rep Hannes.

Hannez, please put me down for Kaiserslautern. We are putting together our first team right now, and are excited to be a part of upcoming events...

"Wer Rastet, Der Rostet."
www.kmccycling.com

Oops, wrong spot... disregard this post.

"Wer Rastet, Der Rostet."
www.kmccycling.com

Polo is practically dead in Denmark - down to one or two game nights a month at the most. I'll probably still travel to tournaments during the summer and stuff, but I highly doubt anyone else will - so there's no need to include us in any EPA organizing, especially not regarding Euro qualifications.

In Sweden there's a hand full of guys that play once in a while, but their scene is really small and I doubt they're devoted enough to travel too far. Great guys though.

Norway has polo in Oslo, but I have never talked to any of them and none of them came down to our tourney, so my guess would be that they are in the same boat as Sweden and us. Social polo only.

Oslo polo is small but growing, we have managed to play twice a week but things have slowed down now with the icy weather rolling in but I wouldn't really call it social polo. Unfortunately we seem to be the only group in Norway at the moment but as interest spreads here I'm sure things will change. In the meantime keep us in the loop, there will be teams travelling from Oslo this year!

Any update here?

RULES DEBATE:
Instead of set up a Euro Rules Committee, and after a discussion with the French Committee, we think it could be great to go directly to a International Rule Committee.

For an International Committee, Woods & Greg could be rep for France.

Kev your help is needed ;)

Doesn't change the European Association debate.

CALL ME DADDY

International Committee for rules sounds like a good idea but if we go with 2 reps for France/UK/Germany and 1 rep for smaller countries, we will have like 15-20 reps from Europe. Adding the reps for NA and other polo scenes we´ll get to 40-50 reps which seems too much to work effectively on rules...

True!

BUT Woods is in charge of Rules for France, he should be in, and Greg is a part of EHBPC organisation so should be in too at this tittle.

For the rest of European rep, one per "big" country (could be 2 for Swiss as they organise WHBPC but nobody else than Clem looked interested) and that's all.

I would prefer an election, but as it looks complicated and some countries doesn't find a way to give a rep quikly it could be simply something like that:

Woods
Greg
Clem
Hannes
Jono
Alejandro

Boom done!

CALL ME DADDY

Ok so,

Im kind of busy busy about WHBPC 2012 organization. What i got right now is the list of contact from several countries. And some of them in detail like UK for example.
Jono i just saw right now the file that you send me early jan' with the data of every people from euro who visited this site or who contacted you. It looks way more classified that my shitty lazy word doc.

Riht now i don't know what to do. I suggested before 2 options, one with a comitee formed with rep from every country or a smaller one elected by rep. But i don't know how to make it happens etc, how to choose that etc.. If somebody here get a better view of international organization. Or maybe an history of how the NAH get created.
I'm lost.

About rules for WHBPC and disscussion with nah comitee. I don't know alos. Logically we should put an european association and comitee before going into this, to be on an egal level as NA is. But it looks really tight to do that in a short period of time.
So maybe the idea of France is a good one, but how to manage the weight of every body in this? 2 rep per country? 2 rep for big country and 1 for smaller?

And what i think, for me the primary question is HOW TO ALLOW SPOTS. Because we can talk about rules during year without having good refs to enforce it, and for me the essential part of this job is procedure: restarting, time out, ball out of bounds, time keeping, etc... and some major fouls has mallets unders wheel who make a team loose the ball etc... No really need about a huge arguments on every points. Also clarify 1 or 2 rules who aren't international has the Ball joint question.
But select a number of spot per country gonna be a real huge question for the next EHBPC,

1. Source reps for each country (almost done).
2. Write a constitution and pass it around for approval.
3. Vote on the initial structure/process.
4. Communicate the formation of the EHBPA to the rest of Europe.
5. Start work on the EHBPA's aims and objectives for the year (rules, Euro spots allocation, sharing of ideas, etc).

We've almost completed phase 1 (and should give the remaining countries a deadline, otherwise they may be excluded from the initial EHBPA formation, etc).
Phase 2 is pretty hard, I can write the first draft for you if you want (based on the London constitution)?

It's not that difficult, yell if you need help.

Writing a constitution for a community that has most of its interaction face to face, in the same city, and in the same language is a lot easier than creating an international organization mostly based on virtual interactions, in multiple languages, and dependent on some kind of representative democracy (in the proposed format) for it to work. Just sayin! I haven't seen the London constitution, and while i imagine most of it would be applicable and really helpful, the parts that wouldn't are apply wlll be the hardest part.

See your point. The london constitution is a great work for a physical and local association (how many members by the way? and active members?). But it need some big changes to make it an International association.
My questions:
As we can't make a big AMG ( or AG in fench) Who's gonna ask for, write and make modifications on the constitution? Would be great if you could put on a first try on it, but after that? If there is some points to change what's the process gonna be?
Who gonna be members and people with the right to vote on the constitution, reps? every european player?
Thanks for enlightenment and help. I really think that's a great first step but as i said i have some questions and small doubts about it and im pretty busy with WHBPC right now, so your help is priceless. By the way i just saw yesterday the sheet you share with me about european people who travel on this board, didn't check my google docs often since im internet free most of the time. This doc is great and gonna be really helpful to pass the words around.

70+ LHBPA members currently: http://www.lhbpa.org/membership/

We opted to have a nominal annual membership fee of £5 and have all the technical gumpf in place that we need: http://www.lhbpa.org/resources/LHBPA_Constitution.pdf

I agree with Kev that it will be difficult to write the Euro association (in-person majority votes and meetings will have to make way for online interaction, well-thought out quorum numbers on meetings will be vital), but I'm pretty confident we can pull a first draft together and go from there (it's not brain surgery)?

Once the first draft's done, we translate it into local languages (London will obviously be no good at this, we are one language simpletons for the most part).

You can amend a constitution at any time, but again it requires due process.

Because an european association can't be for the moment an european federation of national associations which requires constitued members, national or local associations, which we don't have, except few examples, and which will take more time, we have to found a association and by consequence, to give it a law personality, to decide about his structure and the localisation.

This constitution could be a good starting point for our discussion and the founding of a new association, thanks, Jono and lhbpa. And problems like online interaction, languages and so on are there to be solved.

For our brainstorming to determine all this and to learn from other examples, an interesting law article about European Sports Federations and associations: "A Critical Review of the Options for Incorporation"
(Not so bad written, I think it's comprehensible also for non-law spezialised persons..)

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/law/elj/eslj/issues/volume2/number2/bu...

By the way, we founded here in Brussels also a local association (ASBL) with a constitution and so on, so I know about this part of the article about belgians ASBL and AISBL, which could be an interesting option for our EHBPA, quite well, just saying.

More specific thread about international rulesting:
http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/organizing-polo/2012/02/11/na-and-euro...

Just to let u know that we are here :)
Maybe not writing as much, but watching polo news...
Regards from Croatia,
Matej

Tyre calligraphy of Zagreb

Sorry guys for bringing this message out of the blue but i would like to say that this shouldnt happen in regards to picking slots for the EUORS:

"Here is the slots distribution for the EHBPC 2012.
France : 8 (3 slots in the wildcard tournament)
UK + Ireland : 7 (3)
Germany : 7 (3)
Switzerland : 6 (2)
Spain + Portugal : 5 (2)
Italy : 5 (2)
Beneligue : 3 (1)
Poland/Austria/Croatia/Hungary/Czech Rep : 3 (3)
Wild Card : 3
For Organising, because people working on it want to be part of it => Paris : 1 (Rouen 1)"

The Euopean Association should have a say about this!

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

Sorry guys for bringing this message out of the blue but i would like to say that this shouldnt happen in regards to picking slots for the EUORS:

"Here is the slots distribution for the EHBPC 2012.
France : 8 (3 slots in the wildcard tournament)
UK + Ireland : 7 (3)
Germany : 7 (3)
Switzerland : 6 (2)
Spain + Portugal : 5 (2)
Italy : 5 (2)
Beneligue : 3 (1)
Poland/Austria/Croatia/Hungary/Czech Rep : 3 (3)
Wild Card : 3
For Organising, because people working on it want to be part of it => Paris : 1 (Rouen 1)"

The Euopean Association should have a say about this!

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

There is no European association at the moment and most of the key individuals involved are busy organising tournaments...

Clement has the most recent data (I shared all my data with him).

Right now we need to write a constitution, which I said I'd be able to pull together (the first draft, based off of the LHBPA fundamentals with meetings/voting amends, etc). However all my free time right now is spent filling in forms (and trying to secure sponsors) for the London Open 2012.

If anyone has experience with constitutions/due process/legal documents, then maybe they could write the first draft instead?

ok. cool
I know that it late for this but i would like to be a rep for poland since i can see that nothing has been sent to you guys.

Should i just contact Clement?

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

Yes, Poland need to organise where polo is being played in your country (ideally have a rep for each city) and then submit your information (along with a representative for the whole country) to Clement... you will be left out of the process otherwise.

To work, in my opinion a European Comittee should be elected, by the european community OR with national election then we take one or two rep by country. To have a legitimity.
See my message above, in France we did like that to take decisions concerning bike polo in our country.

So Sabicat, be elected in Poland, or let's find a way to have a European election.

But you're true, it's way to late for this year, and EHBPC 2012 organisation begun so we have to deal with it I think.

CALL ME DADDY

HI,
i have founded the Polish polo association and have made it the main polo voice for all cities.
I have 10 cities playing polo and i have eleceted a rep for each city.
They all have their own bike polo email address and that is the way i communicate with them all.
So i will email clement in regards with the names then.

Cheers for the information.

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

Perfect!

Austria - Sent
Belgium - Sent
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
France - Sent
Germany - Sent
Hungary -Sent
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland - Sent
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain - Sent
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

I thought I sent our contacts to Clement weeks ago, but I don't see Czechia as "Sent" so I will do it again.
Just for sure :-)

Thank you! :)

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

You're probably fine, I'm only picking up on the people that come back to this thread to state they've sent the info.

Austria - Sent
Belgium - Sent
Croatia
Czech Republic - Sent
Denmark
France - Sent
Germany - Sent
Hungary -Sent
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland - Sent
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain - Sent
Sweden
Switzerland
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

Croatia info = sent reminder :)

Tyre calligraphy of Zagreb

sorry about that...
Im fuckin' lost in my billion of mails, and i think im not the guy to handle this kind of work, not organized enough...I have internet 3 days a week and that's not enough to handle this shit.

For now i have a sheet with mail from severals counitres, and im completly sad to have fucked up this work like this. There's nothing moving really well. If somebody can unlock the situation im all for it. ...

Sorry again, i assume that most part of the non-existence of an EHBPA core is due to my own laziness.

Too bad, Clement!

Certainly holding the WHBPC 2012 and making it at least as awesome as the Euros 2010 were is a task that claims all your free time for months.

Understandable that there is not much time left to also be head of the european polo association. Next year, maybe?

uolmo .Clement. wrote:

Sorry again, i assume that most part of the non-existence of an EHBPA core is due to my own laziness.

i can't tell if you're joking about the last part here clément. EHBPC 2010, WHBPC 2012? Lazy?

Whether you're joking or not, way to admit that you're overburdened. Miss you.

Im the only one who know the way i work and worked for all this, most of the time that's all Last minute work, extra stamina and a lot of work, nothing compare to a compilation and long time job.

Miss Toronto...

uolmo .Clement. wrote:

Sorry again, i assume that most part of the non-existence of an EHBPA core is due to my own laziness.

Clement, I am sure that no-one apart from you thinks that. The rest of the European community is as much to blame. For instance, this is the first time I have looked at this thread...

Sabrina, Poland has already sent Clement our list months ago already. But please feel free to take over from here, my personal situation has changed so you might have more time for this now.

Clement, c'est la vie, see you in GVA.

Austria - Sent
Belgium - Sent
Croatia - Sent
Czech Republic - Sent
Denmark
France - Sent
Germany - Sent
Hungary -Sent
Ireland
Italy - Sent
Netherlands
Norway
Poland - Sent
Portugal
Russia (by proximity)
Spain - Sent
Sweden
Switzerland - Sent
Ukraine - Sent
United Kingdom - Sent

according to the map here on lobp finland plays as well

The Bisons;

Can someone Jono/Clement? send me the list of reps from each country.

I've got Switzerland/UK/France/Germany/Spain, but need the rest.

Ok, I've got the list of reps, apart from the countries above, I've got Austria, Croatia, Hungary, Czech, Ukraine.

Can anyone else who wants to rep their country (and has the legitimacy to do that), contact me. I just want one contact for the country, not multiple ones, or mail groups.

Thanks

I fucked up the mail compilation and get a who messy mailbox with 1500 unread stuff. So i dont have all the reps from every coutrny, or if i have it, that's lost somewehre.

The simpliest thing right now is that you John H be the main contact for gettin all this stuff together.

sorry for the time lost.

So, the NAH is getting good work done, like http://www.nahardcourt.com/?p=98

But I feel we are still no closer to getting any sort of organised European body right now. I barely have had any responses over the last few months.

What needs to happen to get more people involved?

Almost two years since this Thread was opened and indeed basically nothing happend in Europe.
Post #157 from Jono seems like a good guideline. Someone needs to step up and start drafting a constitution, I think. Then send it to all country reps and start working together on finalizing the consitution. Once that is done, move on to the next point on the agenda.

Amount of work done by NAH is quite amazing.

There are too few volunteers in Europe, the reason the European body stalled last time was because the people trying to drive it forward were the same people that were organising major tournaments.

John, your energy is boundless, but in my opinion it wouldn't be appropriate for you to take a leading role now (Magic bike polo). (Edit: this goes for other bike polo business owners too.)

There isn't much to do really: nail down some new volunteers as the core organising committee, write a constitution, communicate/source approval from the country reps, tell the world, start making decisions.

Any more movement on this??

I would really love to know how each country organises their club or association (if they have one)... can anyone help me? What is the structure? Are there reps for every scene? Who are the senior officers? ETC.

Bump! Spoke to a few people but don't know all the country reps...

Hi Jessie,
if u need names we can start that here again...
When we will have country reps we can start talking about structure ....

Croatia - Matej Pasalic

Tyre calligraphy of Zagreb

So, where were we?

Tyre calligraphy of Zagreb

Any news from Europe?

Hi guys,

I have been working on a proposal, I am waiting for national feedback and our french national committee feedback too on it.

It basically tries to do the best out of this thread.

I am ready to be in charge of this.
My idea about that is that I organize it and I do not propose myself as a possible candidate in any way.

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

Hi there,

I've worked on a proposal for Euro committee for long enough now to finally make it public.
I think this is the ultimate solution. But please add your comments.
But first:
Who am I?
Jason, player since 2010, in France. Secretary of Grenoble’s polo association from 2011 to 2013,
then I travelled to Chile, where I helped locally (Santiago Bike Polo) and nationally, now I am in Finland where I help the national growth too.
I worked closely to the french & chilean referee’s committee in 2013 (translation of NAH’s ruleset in french and spanish, as I speak english, french and spanish).
Now I would like to work on bigger scale, I am ready to give time to create Euro’s committee.
You may have never heard of me, but I am involved in polo and not only casually, I read relevant threads and participate from time to time.

I would gather some other volunteers in my quest, if needed.
I have no authority and I don’t want any. I want to stay impartial.
I would organise votes, through online systems and I will organise the repertory of city representatives.
I created one provisional google account to have access to googles services such as polls or forums or collaborative documents. The account would then be given to Euro HA when elected.
The address is EuroHardcourt (at) gmail (dot) com.

Here’s my proposal that I started organising.
Some little modification has been assessed from my original idea through different forums and talking to different persons involved in polo.
Anyway, this seems to represent pretty much what is happening on this thread, and summing it up.

Structure:

I will set the basis of the committee as such:
Smiley face

Committee of 9 people:
Restrictions: 3persons max per country / living in European continent only / when running propose an agenda
Has final decision on everything.
Each one has same strength in votes occurring inside the committee.

Officers:
Committee can delegate powers on particular topics to players that have experience on something (e.g. John Hayes in NAH: not elected but specialised in tournament organisation so responsible for that).
Those “helpers” can be resigned of Euro Hardcourt Association by the Committee.

City representatives:
They are not directly included in the European Hardcourt Association, but vote for members.
They might be called for a vote on critical issues or major changes (that would probably not happen next year).

Note that the structure is similar to NAH. Which worked on it for 4years now.

Elections:

The committee is elected by city representatives from whole over European continent (150 approx).
Those representatives are elected or chosen in their home cities.

If only 9 candidates or less are running they are automatically elected without votes.
Otherwise, each representatives votes for 9 persons that they want into the committee among the candidates in preferred order (respectively 3 firsts, 3 next and 3 lasts have a voting weight of 1, 0,9 and 0,8).
Each representatives have another weighting system depending on the number of players* they represent.
If the city is bigger than 50players, then weighting equals to 1.
If the city is smaller than 10players, then weighting equals to 0,2.
Otherwise, weighting= number of players / 50

*Players are defined as the average between number of regular players and total number of players.

Objectives:

Committee's objectives for this year will be:
Organisation of this year's EHBPC2015
Coordination with NAH
Game rules decisions (EHA ruleset).
European rules decisions
Organisation of 2015-2016's committee

Schedule:

Gathering of all city information by mid-April
Application until end of May
Final voting until mid June

This schedule might change, but voting would happen in July at most, I think.
Committee starts when votes are counted or when the application for candidates deadline passes with 9 or less candidates.

By the way, I propose as name: European Hardcourt Association (EHA) [No one wants EHBPA!].

Smiley face
Smiley face
Europe according to LoBP

References:

NAH's organisation: http://www.nahardcourt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/NAH_OrgChart_v2.pdf

Note that I am totally against any Regional division as it would add way too much troubles. It would be hell to get few elections done this year, from nothing. I'll leave it to the committee to make it possible for next year if they judge it relevant.

Cheers

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

It doesn't sound bad as a starting point. Thanks for putting out the effort to get this together! This is so overdue!

As you say, once there is an official committee they can make refinements to the organization, if necessary. But for now this looks like a very reasonable proposal!

Good work! And keep going.

_______________________________________________________________
El Vaquilla hubiese jugado Bike Polo.

Good work Jason. This needs to happen.

Great work Jason! I am all for it! Lets make it happen, finally! :)

3-2-1... POLoLAND!
www.polishbikepolo.pl

Nice work Jason. So what's the next step: "gathering information form all city" ?
How do you see that? A google doc shared via facebook/forum/etc to get maximum participation?

Your proposal looks good and well structured, I like it.
Please get in contact with me for any urgent/important issue if any information is required from the Italian bike polo community.

There's a point that is relevant, as you wrote:

JBarsetoonn wrote:

Each representatives have another weighting system depending on the number of players* they represent.
If the city is bigger than 50players, then weighting equals to 1.
If the city is smaller than 10players, then weighting equals to 0,2.
Otherwise, weighting= number of players / 50

*Players are defined as the average between number of regular players and total number of players.

It's a good idea giving to the big cities a max. weight of 1, but is hard to define how many players (and related weight) should have the middle cities because the definition of "regular player" is not objective and sometimes is hard to know every polo scene cause we have no membership system based on official sport association in every city. Middle city (between 10 and 50 players) are the grates part of European polo community.

I totally understand, but we have to find a suitable solution... That's mine yet.
If you come up with something objective, i'll add.

I'll sent a mail, to eliodoro bike polo hoping it's you that manage this account.

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

So NAH will have the mission of approving rules...

and EHA will have the mission of approving rules...

So what's the plan when it comes time for deciding on rules for WHBPC? Same problem when South America, Asia, and Aus/NZ get more organized.

Combination of choice: Smash + Bang

I think it's in our best interest to make NAH + EHA work together.
I don't see that coming but if there is a strong disagreement, the rules would be different.

I was in contact with NAH, and they spontaneously proposed to work together on the rules.
They also made them taking all communities in consideration.

I still think that an international committee has to be made about rules. But now I don't think so.

WHBPC rules would depend on where it is organised. If it's in an other non-structured region then it will be up to them to choose.

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

I agree there needs to be an international committee on rules, but until then doesn't putting this in EHA's mission work against it getting off the ground? It seems like (this is my outsider view) that european tournaments and players aren't having issues with rules, but very much are looking for structure for their local, regional, european, and international path to WHBPC that is fair and with merit.

I just seems like getting things going would be a good first step. I see how much time and energy goes into the NAH rules and reffing discussions, and I think it would be hard to do that *and* get the needed organizational structure up an running.

I'm glad to read about any progress for an EHA!

Combination of choice: Smash + Bang

NAH would be happy to collaborate on rules. That being said, I don't think it's crucial that both continents use the EXACT same ruleset. Good things could come out of trying new things.

x2 on the organizers picking the ruleset.

To go on a bit of a tangent and refer back to your original post:

NAH has restructured this year and we will be releasing information that soon. I would very seriously advise against having so many representatives. The more dispersed the responsibility is, the less gets accomplished. We've seen it time and time again. More gets done when responsibility is consolidated simply due to individuals being more accountable. This isn't to say the "power" is in the hands of a few, on the contrary, a lot can be accomplished through direct democracy.

But Europe we have bigger challenges. We have countries that speak more than 15different languages, with completely unequal division of players in each part, and we are supposed to represent them also, if we want them not to feel "ruled" by the biggest communities.

Our solution is to allow a maximum of them to have a chance to be represented. But without forcing them to vote for the "mains" international involved players.

We are not anyway fooling ourselves. For those 9 people, that have a right to vote, maybe 3 would actually really work on proposals, and maybe 2officers also. This is pretty much as NAH works yet (mainly officers are providing proposal, if I understood well).

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

Alias wrote:

Same problem when South America, Asia, and Aus/NZ get more organized.

Just as a point of reference:
Australia and New Zealand have had an organisational body in place overseeing our rules, bidding process for our continents championships, qualifications for WHBPC and general tasks since 2011.

We call it the "Jedi Council" - AHBPA is the acronym.

Cool. Does the AHBPA have it's own ruleset? Is it different that NAH's?

Combination of choice: Smash + Bang

It does, and after our regions championships at end of March we will be discussing/voting on whether to adopt the new NAH (with or without mods) which I expect will be accepted. We are very open and interested in discussions involving a blanket ruleset decided on everyone rather than just the host city.

Our current one has been used for a year and a half and was almost entire the previous NAH with a few alterations taken from the London ruleset at the time. We have much less contact in our style of play so have had things like off ball checking considered a foul since then.

As everyone is looking forward to make this happen, I will be starting this week to prepare the international list through a google form.

I am actually writing the base of what could be the "guidelines"/"constitution"/"convention" of the committee, that would be available for everyone.

I need your point of view on one extra thing.
I think it is important that committee's are elected from November, so that One committee would organise European Championships and all qualifier if needed on the same year.
Based on an approximate calendar:
November-December: rules preparations/organisation for next years
January-April qualifiers
May-July Euros
August-October Worlds
October - Elections for next EHA members.

Is this calendar ok?

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

Just a remark about this approximate calendar: it can stand if we're considering the case of WHBPC in NA or EU which happened indeed between August and October, but not if they will happen in the southern hemisphere, like it will be probably the case.. next year, in 2015. As far as I remember, Timaru/NZ, before retracting in favour of Montpellier after NAH's position, made a bid for 2014 for November/December, and will probably copy-paste it for 2015, don't you think?
(BTW, Jay-z, nice work done so far, thank you, keep goin'.)

Thanks Sacha,

You're right. I'll try to find out how to put it.

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

Here is the mail I send to all city/national reps contacts I had (around 80people).
After 12h, I have 12answers yet.

Hi everyone,

I'm Jason from France, I am working on organising European Bike Polo Association, and to do so, I need to gather information on every single cities in Europe. The task is huge and I did my best with what's available on League of Bike Polo, now I need your help.

There are few things:
Share this emails with all city representatives that you know from your own country or small countries around yours. We have to gather information on every city.
Share it on Facebook, to your national forums, to your representatives.
I don't have any contacts in particular for Denmark, Luxembourg, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Slovakia, Serbia and Turkey.

And, IF ONLY you are a representative(elected or not) of your CITY, please fill in the google form available here:
(If few representatives exists, please coordinate with them to give one answer)

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1U4oAinkqpmBLwJvt-o_1ZnpWdK3NTjFvaT9HczJ...

This is how the European Committee would work if European majority accept.
Lot of players support the format I'm proposing, around Europe (see https://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/organizing-polo/2011/01/07/european-p... )
Even if you don't agree, please fill in the form to have information about your city, to facilitate European coordination.

This is the first stone of what will coordinate European Bike Polo with other international entities, to create a European ruleset, to organise EHBPC.

Best regards,

Jason B. aka Jay-z
Coordinator of EHA.

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

16 responses yet, please spread the word.

Austria - Graz, Salzburg, Vienna
Belgium - Antwerp, Namur
Croatia - Zagreb
Czech Republic
Denmark
Finland - Oulu
France
Germany - Karlsruhe, Munich, Giessen, Cologne
Hungary
Ireland
Italy - Milan, Taranto
Latvia - Riga
Luxembourg
Netherlands - Amsterdam
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
Ukraine
United Kingdom - Canterbury

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

43/184 answers now.
Spread the word again, it is a slow process but it is worth it.
I will be speaking to Russians and Turkish reps to know if they want to be part of it.

After more than one week, as we have almost 1/4th of the answers, I will probably wait until we get the half, then I will gather the candidates and organize the vote.

Austria (3/4 on LoBP) - Graz, Salzburg, Vienna
Belgium (4/3 on LoBP) - Antwerp, Namur, Brussels, Aalst
Croatia (1/1 on LoBP) - Zagreb
Czech Republic (2/3 on LoBP) - Pardubice, Brno (x2)
Denmark (0/2 on LoBP) 
Finland (2/4 on LoBP) - Oulu, Kokkola
France (2/18 on LoBP) - Perpignan, Salies-du-Salat
Germany (7/32 on LoBP) - Karlsruhe, Munich, Giessen, Cologne, Leipzig, Freecastle, Augsburg
Hungary (0/3 on LoBP)
Ireland (1/1 on LoBP) - Dublin
Italy (7/26 on LoBP) - Milan, Taranto, Catania, Pescara, Bergamo, Vicenza, Vercelli
Latvia (1/2 on LoBP) - Riga
Lithuania (1/1 on LoBP) - Vilnius
Luxembourg (0/1 on LoBP)
Netherlands (2/6 on LoBP) - Amsterdam, Utrecht
Norway (0/2 on LoBP)
Poland (2/8 on LoBP) - Warsaw, Poznan
Portugal (1/5 on LoBP) - Lisbon
Romania (0/5 on LoBP)
Russia (0/5 on LoBP)
Serbia (0/1 on LoBP)
Slovakia (0/1 on LoBP)
Slovenia (1/1 on LoBP) - Ljubjana
Spain (0/11 on LoBP)
Sweden (0/2 on LoBP)
Switzerland (0/10 on LoBP)
Turkey (0/2 on LoBP)
Ukraine (1/3 on LoBP) - Kiyv
United Kingdom (3/22 on LoBP) - Canterbury, Birmingham, Manchester

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

55/183
Goal to launch applications for committee members: 90 answers.
Please move your pals from Germany, Spain, France, UK and Switzerland!

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

55/183
Goal to launch applications for committee members: 90 answers.
Please move your pals from Germany, Spain, France, UK and Switzerland!

Austria (3/4 on LoBP) - Graz, Salzburg, Vienna
Belgium (4/3 on LoBP) - Antwerp, Namur, Brussels, Aalst
Croatia (1/1 on LoBP) - Zagreb
Czech Republic (3/3 on LoBP) - Pardubice, Brno (x2), Prague
Denmark (0/2 on LoBP) 
Finland (2/4 on LoBP) - Oulu, Kokkola
France (2/18 on LoBP) - Perpignan, Salies-du-Salat
Germany (8/32 on LoBP) - Karlsruhe, Munich, Giessen, Cologne, Leipzig, Freecastle, Augsburg, Ulm
Hungary (0/3 on LoBP) 
Ireland (1/1 on LoBP) - Dublin
Italy (9/26 on LoBP) - Milan, Taranto, Catania, Pescara, Bergamo, Vicenza, Vercelli, Rome, Fano
Latvia (1/2 on LoBP) - Riga
Lithuania (1/1 on LoBP) - Vilnius
Luxembourg (0/1 on LoBP)
Netherlands (2/6 on LoBP) - Amsterdam, Utrecht
Norway (0/2 on LoBP)
Poland (4/8 on LoBP) - Warsaw, Poznan, Lublin, Krakow
Portugal (2/5 on LoBP) - Lisbon, Algarve
Romania (0/5 on LoBP)
Russia (0/5 on LoBP)
Serbia (0/1 on LoBP)
Slovakia (0/1 on LoBP)
Slovenia (1/1 on LoBP) - Ljubjana
Spain (0/11 on LoBP)
Sweden (0/2 on LoBP)
Switzerland (0/10 on LoBP)
Turkey (0/2 on LoBP)
Ukraine (1/3 on LoBP) - Kiyv
United Kingdom (4/22 on LoBP) - Canterbury, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

62/90

Austria (4/4 on LoBP) - Graz, Salzburg, Vienna, Linz
Belgium (4/3 on LoBP) - Antwerp, Namur, Brussels, Aalst
Croatia (1/1 on LoBP) - Zagreb
Czech Republic (3/3 on LoBP) - Pardubice, Brno (x2), Prague
Denmark (0/2 on LoBP)
Finland (2/4 on LoBP) - Oulu, Kokkola
France (4/18 on LoBP) - Perpignan, Salies-du-Salat, Nancy, Toulouse
Germany (8/32 on LoBP) - Karlsruhe, Munich, Giessen, Cologne, Leipzig, Freecastle, Augsburg, Ulm
Hungary (1/3 on LoBP) - Debrecen
Ireland (1/1 on LoBP) - Dublin
Italy (9/26 on LoBP) - Milan, Taranto, Catania, Pescara (x2), Bergamo, Vicenza, Vercelli, Rome, Fano
Latvia (1/2 on LoBP) - Riga
Lithuania (1/1 on LoBP) - Vilnius
Luxembourg (0/1 on LoBP)
Netherlands (2/6 on LoBP) - Amsterdam, Utrecht
Norway (0/2 on LoBP)
Poland (4/8 on LoBP) - Warsaw, Poznan, Lublin, Krakow
Portugal (2/5 on LoBP) - Lisbon, Algarve
Romania (0/5 on LoBP)
Russia (0/5 on LoBP)
Serbia (0/1 on LoBP)
Slovakia (0/1 on LoBP)
Slovenia (1/1 on LoBP) - Ljubjana
Spain (6/11 on LoBP) - Barcelona, Olot, Alicante, Madrid, Bilbao, Zaragoza
Sweden (0/2 on LoBP)
Switzerland (1/10 on LoBP) - Basel
Turkey (0/2 on LoBP)
Ukraine (1/3 on LoBP) - Kiyv
United Kingdom (5/22 on LoBP) - Canterbury, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Bristol

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

Cities 87/90

Countries 24/29

Time to start a new topic.

I will start the application process for the committee tomorrow. I will make a poll similar to the previous one with the detailed application content.
Applications would be added to an EHBPA topic I will create later today. The application period would be from 1st of April until 21st. Application will be visible from League of Bike Polo.

The first election of EHBPA is about to start!

Austria (4/4 on LoBP) - Graz, Salzburg, Vienna, Linz
Belgium (4/3 on LoBP) - Antwerp, Namur, Brussels, Aalst
Croatia (1/1 on LoBP) - Zagreb
Czech Republic (3/3 on LoBP) - Pardubice, Brno (x2), Prague
Denmark (0/2 on LoBP)
Finland (4/4 on LoBP) - Oulu, Kokkola, Tampere, Helsinki
France (14/18 on LoBP) - Perpignan, Salies-du-Salat, Nancy, Toulouse, Annecy, Strasbourg, Montpellier, Lyon, Grenoble, Rouen, Caen, Carcassonne, Clermont-Ferrand, Metz
Germany (15/32 on LoBP) - Karlsruhe, Munich, Giessen, Cologne, Leipzig, Freecastle, Augsburg, Ulm, Heilbronn, Duisburg/Ruhrgebiet, Hamburg, Bremen, Hannover, Berlin, Frankfurt
Hungary (1/3 on LoBP) - Debrecen
Ireland (1/1 on LoBP) - Dublin
Italy (9/26 on LoBP) - Milan, Taranto, Catania, Pescara (x2), Bergamo, Vicenza, Vercelli, Rome, Fano
Latvia (1/2 on LoBP) - Riga
Lithuania (1/1 on LoBP) - Vilnius
Luxembourg (0/1 on LoBP)
Netherlands (2/6 on LoBP) - Amsterdam, Utrecht
Norway (1/2 on LoBP) - Oslo
Poland (4/8 on LoBP) - Warsaw, Poznan, Lublin, Krakow
Portugal (2/5 on LoBP) - Lisbon, Algarve
Romania (2/5 on LoBP) - Bucharest, Ploiesti
Russia (0/5 on LoBP)
Serbia (0/1 on LoBP)
Slovakia (1/1 on LoBP) - Bratislava
Slovenia (1/1 on LoBP) - Ljubjana
Spain (6/11 on LoBP) - Barcelona, Olot, Alicante, Madrid, Bilbao, Zaragoza
Sweden (0/2 on LoBP)
Switzerland (1/10 on LoBP) - Basel
Turkey (1/2 on LoBP) - Istanbul
Ukraine (1/3 on LoBP) - Kiev
United Kingdom (6/22 on LoBP) - Canterbury, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Bristol, Sheffield

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

Hi everyone!

First post would be about elections!
Finally we get to the point, we have reached 91 cities tonight, and now it's time to create the applicants poll!
Here it is:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19LJrXKD5ioiAfezDbeHl8XLo9xfRFRLR-AELSYt...

The application period would start now until 21st of April. After that would be voting period!
On this thread you can stay tuned on proposal from applicants that I will update myself.
I will contact interested city representatives.

Talk soon!

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

First applicant.

#1 Alejandro "Mr Carillo" Carillo
Country: Spain
Languages: Spanish, French, English

"I have a lot of experience playing, organizing, reffing and all things polo.
I have some designer skills.
You know you want me, so tick the right box."

Internationnal Tournaments:
"[EHBPC, WHBPC] all of the above (plus organized one EHBPC)"

Experiance:
"City rep for 2 years. 2010-2011 National rep from 2010 until today. EHBPC 2011. Main organizer. Over 50 tournaments in over 30 cities."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"Facebook groups for quick back and forth feedback or discussions between elected members, not visible to the public."

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"we are not very many in this sport and we all need to support each other. The tigher we get, the stronger we'll be."

Global organisation vs. Euro Organisation: "whoooa, one step at a time there!"

Referee, rules:
"Develop in conjunction with NAH an international ruleset.
If need be, develop unique EHBPA ruleset, or test out proposals perceived as a potential benefit to the game."

Add/remove rules to/from NAH current ruleset:
"INTERFERENCE BULLSHIT"
Communication with Euro-polo:
"All of them?"

Add/remove articles to/from Euro Charter:
"Not sure about the petition limit of 100 people. It seems too bureaucratic."

WHBPC Bidding:
"Best bid overall wins, bonus points go to the bid that comes from a different continent than the previous event."

Requirements for EHBPC/ WHBPC:
"EHBPC:
3 courts min. 48 teams min.
36x18-42x25m dimensions.
wildcard could be managed by another city as it robs a ton of energy to the organizers of the main event.

WHPBC
3 courts min. 64 teams min.
38x18-42x22m courts. As close as 40x20m as possible."

About Vicenza/Padova's EHBPC and Montpellier's WHBPC:
"it is a bit late to control the allocated spots from each country to the EHBPC, but it could definitely manage the reffing and the ruleset; and to some extent, the format of the event."

Why should city refs vote for you?
"city refs!?

Vote for me, vote for Pedro."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#2 Krisztian "kRisz" BUGLAVECZ
Country: Hungary
Languages: English

"good skills in Wordpress blog, existing relation with potential sponsor"

Internationnal Tournaments:
"EHBPC"

Experiance:
"elected vice president of the Hungarian Bike Polo association"

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"Facebook"

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"The EHBPA is suggested to work actively together with others (but it should reserve its own European "style" also. in sraight: should have its own outlook, website, management, own way of thinking. Making own decisions even if they are different from the American ones."

Referee, rules:
"make a EHBPA ruleset"

Communication with Euro-polo:
"facebook+website"

WHBPC Bidding:
"Best bid overall bids"

Requirements for EHBPC/ WHBPC:
"3 courts, 40x20 min,cheap and nearby housing/catering facilities"

About Vicenza/Padova's EHBPC and Montpellier's WHBPC:
"searching for sponsors, invite sponsors to the scene and let them sell their stuff"

Why should city refs vote for you?
"I will do my best to represent my country/my city."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#3 Johanna "Jo" Lemm
Country: Germany
Languages: German, English, bit of French

"tournament experience and lots of interest in improving european bike polo! And I know basically everyone in euro polo and I am a good motivator!"

Internationnal Tournaments:
"[EHBPC, WHBPC]"

Experiance:
"I've reffed quite a bit and usually lend a hand whenever its needed"

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"[Mails, Facebook, Forum...] all of the above. Not everyone is on facebook and not everyone chechs their mail regularly. We should use all the media that we have access to! Its important to get everyone connected better. "

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"I am a huge fan of Podium! Screw Challonge"

Global organisation vs. Euro Organisation: "yes!"

Referee, rules:
"NAH should be fine but I am not set on that, if we wanna change it a bit, go for it!"

Add/remove rules to/from NAH current ruleset:
"once again, this is a matter of discussion."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"[Facebook, Twitter, Website, League of Bike Polo, newsletter...] Once again, all of the above and what else we can think of. It doesnt have to be different information. One text, published on all the accessable media should work"

Add/remove articles to/from Euro Charter:
"Nothing yet! That would take a little more time going thru it and discussing it!"

WHBPC Bidding:
"either best bid but diff continent every time!!! but thats unfair since the scenes are just so different in size and participation! It should def be on a diff continent each year!!!!!"

Requirements for EHBPC/ WHBPC:
"wow, a little much to ask right now. The number of courts has to be sufficient to the number of teams involved, so the more the better. I like to keep as many people involved, without causing a chaos!
the court size is evident! just leave it at approximately 20x40"

About Vicenza/Padova's EHBPC and Montpellier's WHBPC:
"depends on how much the already orgaised. I think EHBPC should be used to promote the EHA and also the worlds! Ask the cities what they need help with and take it from there They're gonna know best what they need help with"

Why should city refs vote for you?
"haha, why shouldn't they?!"

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#4 Bogdan "Soze / Turific" Neagu
Country: Romania
Languages: Romanian, English, a little French and a little Italian

"I am a product designer with decent skills of graphic design.
I regularly organize alley cats and gold sprints and I have been involved in organizing 2 polo tournaments in Bucharest, Romania.
I have a good relationship with all the polo players from Bucharest."

Internationnal Tournaments:
"not yet"

Experiance:
"I am one of the few people who try to grow bike polo in Bucharest. We organized 2 tournaments in 2013 here in our town under the umbrella of our informal organization "Bucharest Bike Polo"."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"We mainly use facebook for communicating between polo players in Bucharest, so I guess this would be our 1st choice. "

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"Totally for working with anybody (relevant) that can help."

Global organisation vs. Euro Organisation:
"I fancy the idea of a single organisation (or, if not possible, 2 organizations who use the same hierarchy and same ruleset). If an European organization starts in a different direction than NAH, it would become very hard (if not impossible) to synchronize the organizations in the future. I think km vs miles, pounds vs kg and driving on the right side vs on the left side of the road are enough differences between different parts of the world. "

Referee, rules:
"[Use NAH ruleset / make a EHBPA ruleset / make an international ruleset] To be honest I don't know the differences but I think the idea of an international ruleset sounds good."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"Facebook + newsletter."

WHBPC Bidding:
"Alternate Europe / NA / Emerging Scene"

Why should city refs vote for you?
"I honestly do not urge anybody to vote for me but I am afraid people willing to get involved are scarce these days in Romania, or at least in Bucharest. If a guy who wants to be voted and says why he wants/deserves to be voted in an articulate way emerges, please vote for this guy."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#5 Marek "Gombik" Bales
Country: Slovakia
Languages: English

Internationnal Tournaments:
"EHBPC"

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#6 James "BrotherJimma" McKay
Country: Turkey
Languages: English Turkish Spanish

"I have a lot of experience with organizing and ruling committees from graduate school and student government, and as a player who helped build up clubs from scratch in the USA and Turkey since 2006."

Experiance:
"Helped to organize Bear Polo 2 in Ft. Myers, a bench minor, and one polo exhibition at local cultural festival in Tallahassee...I am also a referee (professionally for soccer and American football), and i design and sell wheel covers and top tube covers at tournaments. "

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"I think a forum or a closed Facebook group would work. The EHBPA should also maintain a blog to keep others informed."

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"I think podium is great-no other system i've seen is working better. I see no problem working with companies, if they make polo specific gear."

Global organisation vs. Euro Organisation:
"I am most interested in European organization. I am American but I don't plan on ever going back to live."

Referee, rules:
"Coming from North America, style of play is quite different here, so a separate EHBPA ruleset would make sense. That way, international tournaments would have to rulesets to choose from."

Add/remove rules to/from NAH current ruleset:
"Link to ruleset no opening now, but i take issue with the 'no intentional redirection off bike' rule. This logic seems to follow from hockey, where it is easier to kick in a redirection, but in our sport willful redirection off a wheel or frame takes skill (think Japanes cycloball). Also the rule about goaltenders supporting themselves on the goal. I have been knocked off balance by a play and penalized for reachi g back to push off the crossbar to stay up. The goalie should have to hold on for 2 seconds for it to be a penalty call."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"Through a fb group, LOBP or especially a blog. I have no interest in tweets, and anyway they are blocked right now by the Fascist government of Turkey."

Add/remove articles to/from Euro Charter:
"Host city defines wildcard distribution if it happens." I am not sure i understand this one...could we make it more clear?"

WHBPC Bidding:
"I think the best bid should win, different continent each time."

Requirements for EHBPC/ WHBPC:
"3 courts, minimum 2/ 40m X20m/ 64 teams/ "

About Vicenza/Padova's EHBPC and Montpellier's WHBPC:
"If i am elected, i will make every effort to come to Vicenza to meet the other members and discuss what needs to be done. We could also collect ideas from club reps and players, maybe in a meeting or with a survey."

Why should city refs vote for you?
"I have a long history on organizing committees outside of polo, as well as professional sports referee experience, and almost 9 years playing polo and making polo gear. I have played for three clubs on two continents. Most importantly, I will give a voice to lefthanded players!"

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#7 Marco "Scimmia" Campisano

Country: Italy
Languages: Italian, English, German, a little of Spanish and Polish

"I have general good organisations skills and good knowledge on working with spreadsheets. "

Internationnal Tournaments:
"WHBPC"

Experiance:
"I'm one of the most active member of the Italian national commitee (still not elected) but worked hard sine 2008 for the whole italian polo community. I actively work on ruleset and refereeing on the main Italian tournaments (making refs briefing and rools clarifications).
I'm also rep for my city, Catania."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"I think is important to decide for only one communication system (I prefer email or google-groups): too many informations doesn't mean "the right information" ... it generate really oft more confusion and lot of time to spend to collect all the information you need"

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"I'm fine with that"

Global organisation vs. Euro Organisation:
"We need to establish in Europe more tools and decision system as much as possible shared, not changing every year and re-discussing for slot allocation (for example)"

Referee, rules:
"Make an international ruleset starting from the NAH ruleset (that have in it years and years of release and experience)"

Add to/remove from NAH ruleset:
"Is not the starting point..."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"Official Website and LOBP"

WHBPC Bidding:
"Best bid wins but different continent each time / alternate Europe/North America/Emerging Scene (Asia/South America/Oceania)"

Requirement for EHBPC/WHBPC:
"Minimum requirements right now are 3 court 40x20"

Vicenza's EHBPC & Montpellier WHBPC:
"I will actively support Padova as refs supervisor."

Why should city refs vote for you?
"I play polo since 2008 and participated to every EHBPC and to two WHBPC (Berlin 2010 and Geneva 2012). I like to help the EuroPolo to have the basis for a more democratic decision and voting systems that takes in consideration all the communities (also the smallest) and support them for the general growing of bike polo.
Don't forgetting polo is for fun... and having fun is a serious thing!"

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#8 Tim "Timmy" Schlenker

Country: Germany
Languages: German, English, some French and Spanish

"Been to a lot of tournaments and also having experience in organizing them. Pretty familiar with the ruleset, helped building up our club to what it is today. "

Internationnal Tournaments:
"AHBPC, London Open, etc."

Experiance:
"Helped organising the first polo tournament in our city along with some other minor polo events. One of the main guys running our club, and probably most importantly, i have been to Timaru, so i have a lot of knowledge about the scene there and still have contact with the local guys there."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"Definitely should be reduced to one platform. As much as i despice it, i would choose facebook, worked best for organising things in our club."

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"Really important!"

Referee, rules:
"Trying to work out one official ruleset for both NAH and EHBPA (also the rest of the world), so there will be no problems, when teams from different continents meet."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"Sincs many people dont have facebook or twitter, there should be a website or forum for everybody. Like LOBP, but for the EU only."

Add to/remove from EHBPA Charter:
"Its mostly already worked out pretty good, maybe some changes still have to be made, but i think we should first try getting the EHBPA working at all and then care about those little things."

WHBPC Bidding:
"Shouldnt be at the same continent twice in a row, also not always in NA and EU, beside that best bid wins."

Requirement for EHBPC/WHBPC:
"3 courts with at least 40/20 meters, teams min. 48"

Vicenza's EHBPC & Montpellier WHBPC:
"To help making sure everything will be well organized, providing the informations to the poloverse and supervising the qualifiction process with allocating the number of slots to the countries."

Why should city refs vote for you?
"Because the EHBPA needs some young blood (I´m 19 btw). Beside that, i´d like to make sure the EHBPA is made for the players and cares about their issues, not like the FIFA. Polo shoud still remain Polo, that is about fun and not cereal (if you´re getting the reference vote for me) competition."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#9 Benjamin Liu

Country: Switzerland/France
Languages: english, french, spanish

"No specific skills, i was involved in tournament and clubs organisation. I applied to this because i think my experience into the bike polo comunity can be helpful. "

Internationnal Tournaments:
"WHBPC"

Experiance:
"I took part into organization of fhbpc in toulouse, as well as whbpc in geneva .

I refed officially the 2013 swiss champs along with tomas machado. I reffed unofficially a lot of games"

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"Facebook is really a good tool to communocate but also promote and update the EHA decisions. If every members gets in it could be easier to have quick conferences and chats between the people.
People without fb could create an account that represent their club(istanbul bike polo) and that would be enough"

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"Its great and necessary"

Global organisation vs. Euro organisation
"Global,euro and local are linked , i cant answer really i m ok to be involved in all of them"

Referee, rules:
"My project is to write down a chart for the refering crew. I will put down my though about rulesets and reffing properly as soon as i can but it will be a long .doc"

Add to/remove from NAH ruleset:
"Before adding/removing anything, i think we shouldnt change the way of playing of polo players DURING the year. I would really like to hear feedbacks from all clubs that enforced properly the new nah ruleset.
I tgink interference rule could be re thinked, as well as highsticking and the way we enforce some penalties"

Communication with Euro-polo:
"a website + newsletter and Facebook"

Add to/remove from EHBPA Charter:
"I think the organisation of ehbpc is mainly taken on by the city who organize it, not the european comitee. Eha might help the city host but truly its the local club and the local players that will be i. Touch with the city representatives.
its the only point i could suggest for now."

WHBPC Bidding:
"I think that emergi g scene needs to organize the next whbpc"

Requirement for EHBPC/WHBPC:
"I dont think this question is relevant as it as already been discussed lot of time and i mainly agree with what as been told ."

Vicenza's EHBPC & Montpellier WHBPC:
"Good question i would like to reply properly in a longer way with a lot more thinking but there are many ways."

Why should city refs vote for you?
"I want to focus on : proper reffing crew and a logical system to get volunteers, bench format and its mechanics, organization of ehbpc AND whbpc ( as it is hold in europe) .
also i would line to present to everyone ,regardless of my election, a cool document that i still have to write down about what we could use to perfect a few thing in bike polo"

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#10 Eduard "Eddy" Krömer

Country: Germany
Languages: German/English

"-good sposor contacts
-tons of experience
-time"

Internationnal Tournaments:
"all EHBPC and all WHBPC :-)"

Experiance:
"organized three tournaments in Munich"

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"EHBPA should use all known tools to communicate
we need a system, where information is shared and posted on all media"

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"perfect"

Global organisation vs. Euro organisation
"european"

Referee, rules:
"Bikepolo needs an international ruleset, which can be simmiliar to NAH"

Communication with Euro-polo:
"we need a forum/page like LOBP just for euro-polo"

Add to/remove from EHBPA Charter:
"nothing at the moment. there will be enough stuff to discuss about dates and rules after publishing it"

WHBPC Bidding:
"alternate europe and north america till the rest of the world is ready for such a big tournament"

Requirement for EHBPC/WHBPC:
"enough courts, same size
wildcard open for everybody
more then 48 teams""

Why should city refs vote for you?
"I live for polo and would but a lot of effort into making the sport more serious"

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#11 Clément "Uolmo" Bailat

Country: Switzerland
Languages: French, English

"Tournament organisation skill.
Associative skills.
Reffing skills."

Internationnal Tournaments:
"WHBPC"

Experiance:
"I was part of the main organisation of EHBPC 2010 and WHBPC 2012 in Geneva. Also part of the Switerzland national champs and selection since 2010. And a first member of Geneve-Velo-Polo association.

Ref the whole prequalification for France last year."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"Probably a Facebook page or a LOBP hidden part of the forum."

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"cool"

Global organisation vs. Euro organisation
"no idea"

Referee, rules:
"Take NAH and kick the stuff who didn't work to make an EHBPA ruleset."

Add to/remove from latest NAH Ruleset:
"Some point about high sticking,
The silver goal situation.

rethinking the off ball check and the way to enforce it.

Invente a penalty between ball turnover and 30 second penalty."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"League of bike polo for official part.

Facebook for every day informations and spreading news"

Add to/remove from EHBPA Charter:
"I think there is few points who need to be change.
-9 members for the comitee can be too much to be efficient.
-Some rules about the way qualifiers, ehbpc and whbpc will be organise are too rigid in my opinion.

The whole chart should be really carfully examinated before an overall approval."

WHBPC Bidding:
"Every year is different for now... No fixed opinion about it."

Requirement for EHBPC/WHBPC:
"a good staff"

Vicenza's EHBPC & Montpellier's WHBPC:
"give them hand for format and reffing staff."

Why should city refs vote for you?
"I worked a lot in the past for this sport, and can make it again."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#12 Vincent "Pôl Poil" POUJOL

Country: Belgium
Languages: French / English

"I can help for the tournament format."

Internationnal Tournaments:
"EHPBC (Paris and Krakow), WHBPC (Geneva), some tournaments..."

Experience:
"President" of Brussels Bike Polo, co-representant for Belgium."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"Could be a google group, a FB page or a space on any forum... Plenty of options."

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"Let's use all the tools we have."

Global organisation vs. Euro organisation
"Fix locals problems locally and globals problems globally sounds good to me... :-) No need to be exclusive here."

Referee, rules:
"Work together with NAH (and the Jedi Council, ...) to create an international ruleset."

Add to/remove from latest NAH Ruleset:
"Bike polo needs to :
- be safe
- be entertaining to play
- be entertaining to watch

Rules should go these way, for exemple keeping regulating contacts, add a crease, make the sport fast and fluid."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"Probably a FB page, some space on a forum (LoBP?), eventually a website, and a mailing list for what really matters."

Add to/remove from EHBPA Charter:
"Need to be discussed with the other members."

WHBPC Bidding:
"Best bid, alternate Europe / North America / Emerging scene. Can be changed in the future as emerging scene won't be anymore emerging..."

Requirement for EHBPC/WHBPC:
"3 identical courts, prefect surface and boards, 40mx20m (or the closer the better), 3 days, 48 direct slots and 12 from the wildcards. Keep the slots assignation inclusive."

Vicenza's EHBPC & Montpellier's WHBPC:
"If Vincenza and / or Montpellier need or ask anything, let's help them the best we can. "

Why should city refs vote for you?
"I don't know if they should, but if they do, I'll try to be there to keep polo inclusive. We still need fresh blood and new ideas to evolve, let's welcome them as we should."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#13 Dany Majard

Country: Czech Republic
Languages: French, English, bit of German/Czech/Japanese

"I have lived 6 years in the States and I know some key people there, mostly from the midwest (Nick Kruse, Sean Ingram, Aaron Hand...).
I have been pushing for proper reffing last year, though there is much progress to be made there.
I also have been giving a huge push to our region through the Monarchy League, with the help of a few other motivated fellas."

Internationnal Tournaments:
"EHBPC"

Experience:
"I am rather dedicated to reffing (I have my own reffing kit that I take to every tourney) and have acquired some experience last year. Reffed a bit at the LO, at Epiphanie, and more in Nuremberg, Berlin polo days, Monarchy League etc...
Back in Kansas, I started the club and dealt with the city to get a tennis court converted to a polo court. I have been pushing towards a national organisation in Czech Rep and as stated above I now help organize the Monarchy League."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"This is a tricky question. Facebook is the fastest mean of communication and the more structured one, but it is polluted by so much. Emails are even more polluted and messy."

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"Anything that makes event organizer's life easier is gold. Yes to Podium, LOBP etc..."

Global organisation vs. Euro organisation
"Lacking any other ruleset, NAH 4.1 IS the international ruleset. So we should make a survey to find out if there is a real need of a european ruleset. If so, make it, test it for a year and coordinate with NAH to make a global ruleset."

Referee, rules:
"Work together with NAH (and the Jedi Council, ...) to create an international ruleset."

Add to/remove from latest NAH Ruleset:
"The possibility to play fixed without a front brake. Other than that, the ruleset is pretty solid. Implementation is the important factor here."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"There should be a website and a facebook page for sure, and all important communication should appear on both"

WHBPC Bidding:
"I really liked the idea of alternating."

Requirement for EHBPC/WHBPC:
"Number of courts and quality of courts. Also, there's two aspects to these tourneys. They are both the highest of competition and the biggest of polo gatherings. The wildcard is the bastard baby of these two incentives to go. Maybe we should think about that seriously."

Vicenza's EHBPC & Montpellier's WHBPC:
"Not sure yet."

Why should city refs vote for you?
"Because I am organized and motivated and think on a global scale and for the long run. BUT I am likely to move this fall to a unknown location."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

#14 Morgan "Morgain" Hidalgo

Country: France
Languages: French, English

"If I don't have practical technical competencies, I participated in the creation and the development of Bike Polo in Lyon and in France. I also travelled all over Europe and the world to attend diverse tournaments including the EHBPCs, the WHBPCs. Thus, I have a very strong knowledge of the Polo community in the world, as well as very good relations with a lot of players. I therefore plan to apply my knowledge of polo, its community as well as my relations, to help developing the European Committee. If you already know me, you are aware of the fact that Bike polo is my passion and that I will fully invest myself in the European project."

Internationnal Tournaments:
"I participated in all the EHBPC and in the last two WHBPC"

Experience:
"I participated in the organisation of various tournaments in my city of Lyon. I also have a significant experience as a referee in various tournaments. Finally, I am also representing the vegan community of bike polo ��."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"The committee should be able to use a special private topic on the league of bike polo forum. A forum is the best way to exchange information between several members and lobp is the main way to communicate for the polo community."

Cooperation with companies/websites (LoBP, Podium...):
"I fully endorse it as long as it goes with the interest of the European polo community."

Global organisation vs. Euro organisation
"I would prefer focusing on the European organisation."

Referee, rules:
"We should develop an international releset in relation with the NAH."

Add to/remove from latest NAH Ruleset:
"The new rule of interference and high sticking should be reviewed."

Communication with Euro-polo:
"Lobp should be used for the same reasons as stated above. But other ways of communications such as facebook or newsletters could be exploited according to the need of the european community. A website, if not needed actually, might be required in the future if the EHBPA is really developing."

Add to/Remove from current charter:
"If I am elected, I would try to review the way that slots are managed for the European tournaments. Each country should be able to allocate his slots, with the support of the EHBPA. Also, I am worried that 9 members in the committee might be too excessive leading to difficulties to take decisions."

WHBPC Bidding:
"the best bid should be privileged, but if possible on different continents as it worked well in the past."

Requirement for EHBPC/WHBPC:
"Court quality (size and floor) should be the main criteria. The number of Court should reflect the number of teams to offer a competitive event while letting access to the most countries. 3 courts on 3 days with 48 teams should be a minimum."

Vicenza's EHBPC & Montpellier's WHBPC:
"The EHBPA should do their best to help the organizers for the ruleset and the format. Knowing that everything is more or less ready, the EHBPA should therefore remain ready to help regarding any subject that the organizers would ask."

Why should city refs vote for you?
"Well, I tried to be as serious as possible to answer the application. But you should know that for me, Polo is before everything else having fun and should stay that way. And if you are not convinced, you can also contact my secretary for any compensation."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

Finally last application added, here is the list of all applicants:

#1 Alejandro "Mr Carillo" Carillo (Spain)
#2 Krisztian "kRisz" BUGLAVECZ (Hungary)
#3 Johanna "Jo" Lemm (Germany)
#4 Bogdan "Soze / Turific" Neagu (Romania)
#5 Marek "Gombik" Bales (Slovakia)
#6 James "BrotherJimma" McKay (Turkey)
#7 Marco "Scimmia" Campisano (Italy)
#8 Tim "Timmy" Schlenker (Germany)
#9 Benjamin Liu (Switzerland/France)
#10 Eduard "Eddy" Krömer (Germany)
#11 Clément "Uolmo" Bailat (Switzerland)
#12 Vincent "Pôl Poil" Poujol (Belgium)
#13 Dany Majard (Czech Republic)
#14 Morgan "Morgain" Hidalgo (France)
#15 Alexandru "Tranda" Trandafira (Romania)

Voting process will start soon, city reps, check your mails!

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)

ERRATUM - I accepted one last candidate, one day afterwards.
This among other things made me change he schedule.
Votes are starting from 24th April until 4th July.

#15 Alexandru "Tranda" Trandafira
Country: Romania
Languages: romanian, english, francais, italiano

"i think i may have some tournament organisation skills"

Experiance:
"In the past i organised two bike polo events in Bucharest and helped organizing the first Romanian Bike Polo Tournament in Ploiesti,
At the moment i'm organizing along with the beautiful people of our bike polo community the second Romanian Bike Polo Tournament in Sfantu Gheorghe."

Project for EHBPA:

Comittee communication:
"from my point of view i think that facebook is the fastest way to communicate online at the moment"

Global organisation vs. Euro Organisation: "first thing first - EU organisation"

Referee, rules:
"we should work on EHBPA ruleset and in the future collaborate with NA for an international ruleset"

Add/remove rules to/from NAH current ruleset:
"none at the moment"

Communication to Euro-Polo:
"clearly League of Bike Polo"

WHBPC Bidding:
"best bid wins but different continent each time"

Why should city refs vote for you?
"Well i just fell in love with bike polo the first time i played last year in April. Unfortunately i suffered in injury at my back and my playing days are over for the moment thus i focused more on organizing and spreading the bike polo "virus" trying to make it more and more popular in Bucharest and beyond."

Jason aka. Jay-z - Grenoble (Fr) - Santiago (Cl) - Helsinki (Fi)