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Unsportsmanlike Conduct

Let’s talk about what this rule is like in other sports and if implementing a rule that judges intent in the case of unsportsmanlike conduct is an okay thing to do. Under unsportsmanlike conduct, we can include a lot of things that give the referee power to keep the game under control. Possibly, we can write it in a way that eliminates violent behavior, but also things like throwing an opponent’s downed mallet or mouthing off at a referee or a myriad of other things. Written properly, this rule can take care of a lot of problems – even actions unforeseen. It is very helpful if you state your idea in the form you would like to see the rule written. Help me with this!

Current Form
§5.5 – Unsportsmanlike conduct
§5.5.1 – An Unsportsmanlike conduct penalty will be assessed when a player is judged by the referee to be behaving in an unsportsmanlike manner. Examples of this include:
§5.5.1.1 – Verbal abuse of a referee, goal judge, timekeeper, scorekeeper, or any other event organizer or official.
§5.5.2 – Knocking or relocating an opponent’s dropped mallet in order to make it more difficult for them to recover it.
§5.5.3 – Failure to tap out or leave the play after dabbing.

https://vimeo.com/69880780

at 4:29, §5.5.2. When dudes about to pick up his own mallet... even though it was blocking any potential shot... and they had possession... WHY?!

But, anyway:
Unsportsmanlike is the easiest penalty to call, but it never happens.. Referee dissent is the most common and it's got to stop. Referees should not be afraid to call this. Yes it's lame, putting someone in the box for 30 seconds because they called you an idiot, but it has to start happening. It's so subjective it's hard to define and that makes writing this rule very difficult. You've already separated recklessness from this, so that helps. I'm not sure.

roustem wrote:

https://vimeo.com/69880780

at 4:29, §5.5.2. When dudes about to pick up his own mallet... even though it was blocking any potential shot... and they had possession... WHY?!

But, anyway:
Unsportsmanlike is the easiest penalty to call, but it never happens.. Referee dissent is the most common and it's got to stop. Referees should not be afraid to call this. Yes it's lame, putting someone in the box for 30 seconds because they called you an idiot, but it has to start happening. It's so subjective it's hard to define and that makes writing this rule very difficult. You've already separated recklessness from this, so that helps. I'm not sure.

i dunno, it was in front of the goalie, so if he had to move he may have had to roll over it and get hurt. the ball left his area, he reset it. i don't think that was the most unsportsmanlike thing i've seen concerning this.

why? because the mallet was sitting in front of him, and when guy came over to pick it up in front of him it would've blocked his line of sight, and his potential to roll out if he'd needed to. if you drop your mallet it's kind of your own fault, unless someone egregiously knocks it out of your hand or something.

it's not like homeboy wound up, he gave it a little wrist tap to get it out of his way.

"not the most unsportsmanlike" "It's not like he wound up". Irrelevant. You don't touch a downed mallet. He "tapped" it with the obvious intention of making it more difficult for the player to recover and it prevented a forecheck and directly resulted in a shot. Really?!

Also, "he might get hurt if he runs over it"?! Yep, these infinitely skilled riders are at great risk from a stationary mallet on the ground. What a joke.

I didn't imagine this being an argument...

You appear to be basing your opinion off of one video you saw and extrapolating that you should NEVER EVAR EVAR touch a downed mallet and fail to see any situation where it would be acceptable. That's bad science.

Your counterpoints consist of simple dismissals and absolutes like "irrelevant," "never touch," "what a joke," with no rationale provided.

I'm just going to go ahead and declare you the winner here.

What exactly did you expect from a public internet forum?

As always your beauty is surpassed only by your wisdom.

llIIlllIIIllIlIIllIllIIlIllllIIlIlI wrote:

You appear to be basing your opinion off of one video you saw and extrapolating that you should NEVER EVAR EVAR touch a downed mallet and fail to see any situation where it would be acceptable. That's bad science.

§5.5.2 – Knocking or relocating an opponent’s dropped mallet in order to make it more difficult for them to recover it.

I'm not extrapolating based on the video. I'm making an assessment that it was against the rules based on ^^^^. If you think it should be changed, that can be discussed. But don't tell me that my interpretation of the CURRENT rule is extrapolation.

I already declared you the winner. Save the keystrokes, Mavis Beacon.

roustem wrote:
llIIlllIIIllIlIIllIllIIlIllllIIlIlI wrote:

You appear to be basing your opinion off of one video you saw and extrapolating that you should NEVER EVAR EVAR touch a downed mallet and fail to see any situation where it would be acceptable. That's bad science.

§5.5.2 – Knocking or relocating an opponent’s dropped mallet in order to make it more difficult for them to recover it.

I'm not extrapolating based on the video. I'm making an assessment that it was against the rules based on ^^^^. If you think it should be changed, that can be discussed. But don't tell me that my interpretation of the CURRENT rule is extrapolation.

no, but it's wrong. dude moved it and made it easier for him! it's safe, out of play and doesn't have to worry about being in the middle of the way of everyone and getting walloped in the dome piece. from the ruleset, MY interpretation is that he moved it to make it easier to recover!

roustem wrote:

"not the most unsportsmanlike" "It's not like he wound up". Irrelevant. You don't touch a downed mallet. He "tapped" it with the obvious intention of making it more difficult for the player to recover and it prevented a forecheck and directly resulted in a shot. Really?!

Also, "he might get hurt if he runs over it"?! Yep, these infinitely skilled riders are at great risk from a stationary mallet on the ground. What a joke.

I didn't imagine this being an argument...

lets say this fine goalie has a open breakaway and has to roll out of goal. now there is a dropped mallet in front of him. he goes to sprint towards the ball and finds, oh it's not so open, and an opponant puts a little shoulder into him. he tries to dodge and correct himself and oh wait some fucking retard left his mallet in front of his wheel. this causes a pile up, dude hursts his wrist, goal is scored. the goalie feels so stupid, if just i was allowed to make this safe for me... he goes home, can't work because of his wrist, loses his house, and because of the injury he can't play catch with his son. his son goes out hanging around older men, looking for a strong male role model, ends up doing gay porn, next thing you knwo this guys son is staring in johhny needs love 13 , now the kid has dicks in his ass like the tail of a peacock. the lifestyle is hard, so he starts using to keep himself calm. all of a sudden he's hooking to pay off his dealer, and contracts the HIV virus. now you gave this kid AIDS just because you think it's a great idea to let people leave their toys in dangerous areas.

there should be a penalty assessed, like that of tripping if this did happen, if you're not allowed to move the mallet. you should be held responsible for your equipment.

I can't argue with that hypothetical. Here's a solution: glue your mallet to your hand, and wear full body armor. Or else you'll end up doing gay porn.

Kruse, you were right, this forum is a great place for open discussion of rules.

Agreed. Goalie cleared the mallet out of his way so he could continue playing the game. The goalie never rolled out of position to reach that mallet. Timing of clearing may be suspect, but I'd have done the same thing and would expect others to as well.

§5.5.2 – Knocking or relocating an opponent’s dropped mallet in order to make it more difficult for them to recover it.

i don't know the wording, but it doesn't seem like the first priority should go to the person who's dropping their equipment (unless, like I said above, it was slammed out of their hand with a big wind up hack). the first priority should probably be getting dropped equipment out of play / immediate area of the ball (5 meters) regardless of whether it's harder for the person who dropped it to recover it.

The wording is however you want it to be. Do you like it as is or would you change it?

I sort of agree that since it was his goal that he was defending, his initial thought was probably to just make sure he could get a clear vision of the shot and to prevent unpredictable bounces the ball may take when it hits the mallet - ones that possibly would end up in the goal.

I would think it's just the referee's job to judge this situation and make the call they think is right. But obviously you and Joe disagree on this even with the current wording, so can you think of a way to say it better and retain the idea that a person is allowed to move a mallet if it is threatening to negatively affect the defense of your own net?

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fixcraft.net

"person is allowed to move a mallet if it is threatening to negatively affect the defense of their own net"

that might be fine and leave it open to be judged by the ref. i think it should also be ok for the offense to move a mallet if it's dropped in front of a goal they're shooting on, within reason... but who knows.

i think, since we're talking about conduct--and even though the guy above thinks it's irrelevant--the conduct before the mallet is moved does matter. just like it matters what precipitates someone dropping their mallet. if i wind up, full swing, and knock your mallet and you drop it, that's not legit... but if i give you a little wrist tap and you drop it, that's on you. if you drop your mallet, i hook it in my head and throw it over the boards, that's not legit.. if i shuffle it out of the way, or slightly tap it 10' out of the play because it's in everyone's way then i don't see it being a problem. for me, it's in the same category as bike control and have a hard time just giving people a pass because they can't hold onto their shit.

I like these thoughts.

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fixcraft.net

Hello,

I am from Chile.

What happens when a player hits the goalie's mallet with the intention of taking him down and the play is in another area of the playground?

I think that is unsportsmanlike. And should not be considered as valid.

Cheers

If I were the goalie, I wouldn't have touched the downed mallet. Not only because it's frustrating as a player when someone on the other team sends your mallet for a trip, but because, the way I see it, the downed mallet is not just in my way; it's in the attacking players' way as well. Yes, I know that airborne wrist shots are becoming more popular. But if the attacking player is in direct line of the downed mallet & takes a *non* wrist shot, there is a chance that the downed mallet will deflect the ball.

Also, watching the video, the goalie did not lightly tap the downed mallet. He shoved it at least a few feet out of the way toward the corner. Conversely, If I were in goal, dropped my mallet (due to a hack or whatever), and someone on the other team shuttled my mallet into the far corner, I would regard that as a dick move 100 percent. It's not your mallet. Leave it alone.

Dus wrote:

If I were the goalie, I wouldn't have touched the downed mallet. Not only because it's frustrating as a player when someone on the other team sends your mallet for a trip, but because, the way I see it, the downed mallet is not just in my way; it's in the attacking players' way as well. Yes, I know that airborne wrist shots are becoming more popular. But if the attacking player is in direct line of the downed mallet & takes a *non* wrist shot, there is a chance that the downed mallet will deflect the ball.

Also, watching the video, the goalie did not lightly tap the downed mallet. He shoved it at least a few feet out of the way toward the corner. Conversely, If I were in goal, dropped my mallet (due to a hack or whatever), and someone on the other team shuttled my mallet into the far corner, I would regard that as a dick move 100 percent. It's not your mallet. Leave it alone.

he pushed the mallet out of play. it's in the middle ruining everyone's fun. the dick move was not getting your own mallet out of the way. wwgrd.

Would it be possible to word this like an invisible crease existed? I know that's not as pro as some of you want, but in this particular case it could be beneficial. Again, in this situation, it could be dictated that the ref is in charge of the play in terms of safety and integrity to the game. I felt as though it was a fair mallet clear. Obviously you can't predict how a play will develop after the fact, so a compromise has to happen somewhere.

Just a thought.

Or phrase it as the peripheral of the goal and the ability of the goalie to protect the net while still giving the opposing team a fair path to score.

it has nothing to do with the proximity to the goal. it has to do with it inhibiting play. something like
5.5.2 – Knocking or relocating an opponent’s dropped mallet with the purpose of making it more difficult for them to recover.

Unsportsmanlike behaviour should be weighted more than a foul i.e. lead directly to a 30 second penalty rather than ball turnover.

I think the following should be added:

• commits a foul for the tactical purpose of interfering with or breaking up a promising attack
• attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury
• acts in a manner which shows a lack of respect for the game
• verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart

Point 2 was seen at the London Open final which could also be argued to be point 3. I strongly feel that point 4 should be added as it's extremely poor form and disrespectful. Football has this for when a player yells something just as another player goes to shoot for goal.

brox wrote:

Unsportsmanlike behaviour should be weighted more than a foul i.e. lead directly to a 30 second penalty rather than ball turnover.

I think the following should be added:

• commits a foul for the tactical purpose of interfering with or breaking up a promising attack
• attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury
• acts in a manner which shows a lack of respect for the game
• verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart

Point 2 was seen at the London Open final which could also be argued to be point 3. I strongly feel that point 4 should be added as it's extremely poor form and disrespectful. Football has this for when a player yells something just as another player goes to shoot for goal.

verbaly distracts? thats part of the fucking game. i played a game at northsides and thats all one of my opponents did, in the most polite way possible. that point is dumb.

can you explain why it is dumb or go into further detail?

when you're at the pub playing pool and some one is about to take a shot do you do it then??? no, because it's unsportsmanlike and in some regards disrespectful. it's about fair play.

brox wrote:

can you explain why it is dumb or go into further detail?

when you're at the pub playing pool and some one is about to take a shot do you do it then??? no, because it's unsportsmanlike and in some regards disrespectful. it's about fair play.

cool, we're gonna play billiard rules too? why don't we all done slippers and dance around and not touch the ball. need someone to hold your hand? is your mom going to call my mom if i play to rough? what is this fucking pre-school?
why not get rid of talking altogether? in baseball, the catcher always has a nice shit talk to the batter. because it's fun and funny, and a good tactic. from now on ask all your friends to be quite when you take a shot.
in pool i also don't have a guy with another stick trying to hit the ball away while i'm taking a shot either. perhaps we should disallow that. if i did it at the pub i bet you'd get awfully sore at me right?
or if i put my bike in front of the pocket you're trying to shoot your ball into. lets get rid of that too. also, lets get rid of crowd heckling while we're at it too. they don't do that in golf or pool. it's poor manners.
are you fucking serious? trying to compare billiards to polo? …the fuck?

kristxw wrote:

cool, we're gonna play billiard rules too? why don't we all done slippers and dance around and not touch the ball. need someone to hold your hand? is your mom going to call my mom if i play to rough? what is this fucking pre-school?

how about trying to have a constructive argument rather than just trolling? it's simply an example. it's got nothing to do with banter or shit-talk which is perfectly fine. it's simply when some one is about to take a shot. this ruling is in many other sports to eliminate people being dicks. isn't the first rule of polo about not being a dick?

so we're playing a game, and i have some fun banter, and then i see you're about to take a shot, i need to be quite to make sure you can concentrate? you're right, this sounds like a good idea.
Maybe we should get players who purposely barrel into an entire team to get them to dab out so they can win a match penalized before a guy that says "hey, don't miss your shot".
the don't be a dick rule is long gone. you can be a dick as long as it's within the confines of this document.
Constructively, i'm saying:
1. it's dumb. if you can't harden the fuck up, take some shit talk, and still successfully win matches, I'm sure there's a pub with a pool table for you. It's part of the game, and has been, and trying to censor it now is foolish.
2. It's non enforceable with out setting precedents. next thing you now they will be forcing rules of no swearing, or no talking to the other team.
3. it's pointless. it doesn't change the game, and if it does for you, see 1. adding rules for the sake of adding rules is foolish. we should be trying to limit rules, and keep them concise. adding one to protect your feelings isn't a good rule.

While a catcher in baseball certainly shit talks the batter, I am pretty sure he doesn't yell during the pitch/swing.

I think it's a little silly to try and make rules about verbal exchange during the game, I also agree with Brox that that kind of exchange should be psychological, not physically trying to distract the person with the ball.

Legalize Hand Throws - 2014

You mean the classic, "swing, now" right after a pitch isn't trying to distract the batter? we used to have drills where the coach would yell stuff like that during batting practice so we could handle it.

Nuh uh, that doesn't happen, and I played JV so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

Legalize Hand Throws - 2014

Sounds like you played in a nicer district than we did...

......

>• verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart

Perhaps verbally distracts is too broad, and this usually occurs in relation to shots on goal. I'm thinking of abrupt loud shouting at a close distance, when a defender realises they cant actually defend the shot, that occurs right as a ball carrier is about to strike the ball.

I thought I vaguely remember a rule like this already?

It's definitely unsportsmanlike.

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bikepolo.com.au
urbanbicyclist.org

My thoughts of adding it was purely for when they are taking a shot so if it was written more directly for this, then I'd agree.

As you've said, it's already covered by the general "unsportsmanlike behaviour" but this is just making it specifically clear.

I see what your point is and I would ask what is the black and white rule about verbal exchanges. How can you expect the ref to hear this? Because the ref HAS to hear it, otherwise you open a big ole can of worms. At tournaments the ref can barley hear the players (in my experience) let along what they say to each other at the other end of the court. A player or a spectator who wants to yell at you while you're trying to shoot isn't going to change anytime soon I'd guess. If you want my honest opinion get used to it, and if really messes with you then this is one of your challenges in polo that you can work on as an individual. My friends yell at me when I'm trying to shoot, sometimes at big tournaments.

Keep your standards low, and morale high.

.

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bikepolo.com.au
urbanbicyclist.org

Not sure if this has been talked about yet.

What about when a player throws their own mallet out of anger? I have personally seen some really close calls of people throwing their mallet and it nearly hitting people. We all know it happens in tournaments games, pickup and sometimes it can be funny when it gets stuck in a tree or something, but it shows no class and can be very dangerous to players and spectators.

throwing a mallet is currently penalized (7.5.1)

You're correct, but under "mallet handling penalties", whereas this thread is referring to a new "unsportsmanlike conduct" rule set section.

I think you could make the argument it should be moved to unsportsmanlike.

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fixcraft.net

oh, the perry method?

Not to put Perry on blast, but he nearly caused the razing of the Hua Mei Bird Garden by throwing his mallet yesterday. Seriously.

He's a good dude so, Jah bless... but don't throw your mallet.